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Posted by James Whittaker on 07/08/2010

Reports are surfacing to suggest that Joe Ledley has favoured a move to Celtic park over the Potteries and whilst the move hasn’t taken place yet, it looks to be in the final stages and unless he has a late change of heart will be lining up in the Green and White Hoops against the likes of the mighty St Johnstone, Hamilton and Kilmarnock.

As per my previous story, the Potters looked to have the upper hand on this one and the apparent snub has been met with the predictable attacks on the Manager and backroom staff in charge of the negotiations on certain forums – how can Stoke lose out to Celtic for a player, someone needs to be sacked!!

The reasoning of many is so flawed it barely warrants a response but the moaners tend to be the loudest so this Stokie would like to have HIS say and to put the record straight.

Transfers are very rarely a simple choice between two clubs – Many sources say that Ledley has been offered a £20k/week 4yr contract at Stoke to play in the Premier League, it seems his ambition and indeed loyalties to his boyhood club have taken a back seat to an extra £5k/week. My question to those whining about missing out is, do you really want that kind of character at Stoke?

We know footballers are greedy, but Ledley knows full well if he moves to Celtic his boyhood club could sink into Administration, he knows if he moves there he will have to play in front of 4 figure crowds every other week against opposition worse than he faced in the Championship. He knows if he moves their he won’t get the chance to test himself against the best players in the World, in the best league in the World and realise his self stated ambition to play in the Premier League. It seems that all it has taken to buy Ledley’s ambitions, loyalties and self respect is an extra £5k/week and a signing on fee, and that is everything that is wrong with modern football.

Yes we have chased Ledley at various points over the last 2 yrs, indeed 2yrs ago we offered £6m at a point when we were struggling to get players in and he was a midfielder on the top of his game but this was 2yrs ago.. Since that time, Ledley has done very little to suggest that he was worth revisiting at anything like £6m. In those 2 yrs Stoke City have evolved and moved onto bigger and better things and whilst he was once a marquee signing, he is now little more than a squad filler.

We made a very generous £20k/week offer and quite rightly refused to budge on it despite reports that we were being encouraged to match Celtic’s offer of £25k/week. We identified a player, where he would fit into our team, where he would fit into our wage structure and we stuck to it, we didn’t get drawn into a measuring contest and that is very much to Stoke City’s credit and is exactly why we were one of the only clubs in the Country turning a profit. This seems to be lost on some people who think we have endlessly chased a target and not done enough to get him here and instead have LOST him to Celtic.


Too expensive… ©AP

These are the same people who were whinging when we didn’t sign Zigic; “he’s made for our system” they said (despite being the ones whinging at the system in the first place – go figure) instead he went to Birmingham in a deal worth over £20m…..£20M!!!!! I’m sure these people would like all of our targets to sign, I’m sure we can afford to shell out on the big transfer fees but it’s the contracts that are killing us, why on earth would we commit to a long contract worth over £20m on a 29yr Serbian who is unproven in the Premier League, it is madness! Certain fans need to understand that football is a business and whilst we are a certain sized team with no European football and a ground that holds under 30,000 we are in no position to be handing out such lucrative and damaging contracts, I’m sure Pompey, Leeds, Hull and many more had a great 15 mins in the limelight but all are paying for it now for that very reason – you don’t live beyond your means.


Be careful what you wish for… ©GettyImages

This season sees a new rule come in which puts any transfer activity under the microscope even more, we are only able to register 25 senior pro’s for the season in addition to any number of U21’s and like it or not we have a LOT of dead wood we need to shift, do you really want our team splashing the cash around and ending up with 40 players come registration time? They all need to be paid you know? We simply can not let ourselves be in that position.

In fact, ironically whilst people were switching on their gas ovens and sealing the windows over the Ledley saga, Stoke went about their business and signed a very promising Belgium Youth International, in fact we beat a number of teams to his signature including the richest club in the World, this player’s agent didn’t seem to have too much of a problem with the club saying;

“"He was very impressed by Stoke from the off, their professionalism and enthusiasm, and it did not take long to agree."

We had a valuation of Ledley and where he would fit in and Celtic offered more, not a problem, we walk away and get value for money elsewhere, could we have blown Celtic out of the water if we had wanted to? Of course, just like we did with Beattie, but now, just like then, we knew what the player was worth to Stoke City Fc. We identified this young Belgian International and saw him as having great potential and thought about the bigger picture - does that sound like a club struggling to sign the players they want? Or does it sound like a club who are looking forward and building for our future?

If the whiners could step back and be even the slightest bit objective then they would see that Coates/Pulis et al are doing the very best for our club and will never, ever let us get to a point where our ongoing stability is compromised by stupid short term decisions and the need to appease the vocal minority who only care about whose name they want on the back of their shirt. We continue to be run in a very sensible and practical way and I for one am more than happy that there are people who care enough about our future that they don’t put our very existence in jeopardy for short term gain or glory.

Comments

Posted by mu11en on 07/08/2010

60000 stadium, European football every season, 5k extra a week, you speak like u can compete with a club like Celtic.

maybe the real reason u didn't get ledley is down to ambition...u will be relegation fodder next season and everyone knows it.

bad grapes etc a plenty in this article.

we will sign joe, keep him for a few years then sell him on for 6 - 8 + mil.

sorry gents but u need to realize stoke is a small club in the big scheme of things.

Editor Comment - the first round of european qualification as always though. As for sour grapes, I think you will find that a large majority of Stokies have never been in favour of us signing Ledley..

Posted by TrueTim on 07/08/2010

He will win trophies at celtic mate, play in europe every season then jump ship in a few years to a bigger club than stoke in the epl, simple as!

Editor Comment - trophies playing the likes of Ross County?

Posted by Graham on 07/08/2010

Hmmm,there's a counterpart to this story. Joe Ledley could play for one of the biggest clubs in the world in Celtic,play on a regular basis in the Champions League,win lots of trophies...or he could play for Stoke!!!

It's a bit of a no brainer isn't it...become a true legend world wide in that has Celtic supporters in every corner of the globe,or have a life destined for nothing more than fighting relegation in the world's most over-rated league.

Sign on the dotted line Joe and become a Celtic legend.

Editor Comment - We have finished mid table for 2 seasons, not really a relegation battle is it?

Posted by Anthony on 07/08/2010

Since when did Stoke have delusions of grandure and think they we're a bigger team. Did anyone ever think that although ledley will be getting an extra 5k a week, that success such as trophies & european football is better than playing for a mid-table side in the premier league. It is a shame that Cardiff are losing out on compensation as I quite like them as a team, but a person future shouldn't be decided so they can save a football club.

Editor Comment - You lost me when you said you liked Cardiff :)

Again, you all go on about trophies, but there are only two decent sides in Scotland, so how is that meaningful competition?

Posted by G-Man on 07/08/2010

I would take umbrage in your comments about not testing himself against the top players in the world.Celtic play in Europe very year against the likes of AC Milan,Man Utd,Barcelona etc,to name but a few.When was the last time Stoke graced european football? You may be in the premiership now, but realistically for how long? 1 more year, 2 tops? (By the way, the EPL is not the best league in the world,you are deluding yourselves-spanish football is sooo much better).

For me,a choice of Stoke(yawn) or Celtic is a no-brainer.
Mon the Hoops!

Editor Comment - Your biggest games in Europe in the last 2 yrs have been against Arsenal and Man Utd, we play teams of that ilk week in week out

Posted by Tim on 07/08/2010

Sour Grapes. You are talking like the Ledley isn't worth it as a player, but you'd be loving it if he joined Stoke, so stop talking like this is a godsend and that he is a horrible human being for signing for Celtic. Celtic have made the last 16 in Champions League, what has Stoke down? He made his decision, move on and stop whining.

Editor Comment - As I've said elsewhere, most Stoke fans never wanted him to come to Stoke now or two years ago, so it really isn't sour grapes.

if you read the article, you will see I am actually criticising a section of our own support for misreading a situation

Posted by ricky on 07/08/2010

i know scottish football is s***e,i watch it every week but celtic are a millions times bigger than stoke.thats a fact

Editor Comment - Define million times bigger?

Posted by Andy on 07/08/2010

Joe Ledley has chosen Celtic over Stoke, because Celtic are one of the biggest clubs in world football! Celtic play in europe every season, they are previous European Cup holders. Who wants to play for Stoke? Stoke will be playing championship football again in the not so distant future. Well in Joe, and haha Stoke ;)

Editor Comment - Celtic play in Europe every year, so do Total Network Solutions of Wales...

Posted by G on 07/08/2010

Same old nonsense. Celtic are a much bigger club than Stoke and many other EPL sides. True the league they play in is not of the same standard or riches as the EPL but it is one thing playing for clubs like Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs etc but a very different thing playing against them in a team where it is all hands to the pump to try and retain EPL status. And who is to say he will not get a move to a better EPL club than Stoke in 3 or 4 years time when he still has his best years ahead of him?

Editor Comment - I agree that Celtic are a bigger club size and fanbase wise, but the point of my article is that Ledley has always said he wanted to play in the Premier League and in the past has always done his best by Cardiff so this latest move is one that has not gone down well in South Wales. As for all hands to the pump - we love it!

Posted by espie on 07/08/2010

Get a grip please mate!! You've clearly got the blinkers on! The Premiership is NOT the best league in the world and the best players DO NOT play in it. Ledley has decided to join a team who compete in the Champions league and contend for titles. Why would he want to join the throw in specialists STOKE!! Celtic are former european champions, competed in the uefa cup final in the last five years and have a grand proud history which you could only dream of having. Scottish Premier League players have ventured down to the Championship and quite simply pumped most of the guff down there. Charlie Adam (Rangers squad reject) Graham Dorrans (Ex Livi and Partick Thislte player). The boy has ambition. Play in front of 60,000 fans every week for 3 years and head back down south to a bigger club than STOKE. STOKE mate STOKE. Mid table, throw in specialists.... oh dear oh dear

Editor Comment - You're right we have no proud history, we are a founder member of the football league, the oldest top flight league club in the world, we have had the likes of Stanley Matthews, Gordon Banks, Geoff Hurst play for us but they're no match for....er......Charlie Nicholas?

As for playing in front of 60,000 every week, it's more like 60.000 one week, 8,000 the next..

Posted by Dave Lowe on 07/08/2010

Good article, agree 100%. I for one am not that gutted about Ledley not signing as he has shown what greed is all about. I would rather try and get O´Hara as he is a prem player who can defo cut it, Ledley has never played in the Premiership. I think the young Belgian lad is a great signing as he is highly though of and you only have to look at the clubs that were after him so well done to the club with that one. Up the potters!!!

Editor Comment - I was never bothered about Ledley signing, I would have taken him and not grumbled had he signed as a squad player but we were absolutely right to tell him where to go and not to match Celtic's offer and as far as I know is STILL holding out in the hope we do

Posted by johnny on 07/08/2010

This is nonsense and typical of someone jumping on the bandwagon who watches little or no scottish football. sure the SPL doesn't match up to the EPL which is awash with ridiculous amounts of money but as a scot living in england i can tell you that the top thre or four could compete in the EPL and the rest are cmparable to championship sides.. hence why so many scots have moved to championship clubs and done well. the best player in the championship last season graham dorrans was signed from first division livingston. celtic are a massive club much bigger than stoke will ever be and have a worldwide fan base. true he will play to 8,000 every other week at the likes of inverness but he will also be playing infront of 60k the rest of the time and will have the chance of playing in europe. something stoke will never be able to offer him. he's 23 and no doubt he will end up playing in the EPL again one day but celtic is a great move for anyone.

Editor Comment - I think Celtic is a good move for many footballers, but it doesn't match what he said his ambitions were and if reports are true he is there for the money. Stoke have finished 12th and 11th and got to the QF of both cups so Europe is hardly something Stoke will never see. It will come, and it will be on merit by beating good teams

Posted by Celtic Bhoy on 07/08/2010

Give us a greet. He will be playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world, a club with one of the biggest fan bases and half of the old firm the biggest and well known derbies in world football and will get the chance to play in the the champions league and play in front of 60 thousand. Every other week intead of playing with a small club who will be fighting relagation every year. So call him a money grabber if you want but your full league is full of overpriced overated average players

Hail hail joe !!
Y.N.W.A

Editor Comment - Two mid table finishes does not equal a relegation fight...

Posted by Greig on 07/08/2010

Your Comments are greatly flawed James.

You have the nerve to ask why Stoke can't beat Celtic to the signing of Joe Ledley, it's quite simple, Celtic are one of the biggest names in world football and although the EPL is regarded as the finest professional football league in the land, Some players listen to their heart rather than their heads on such an issue as wether to join either Stoke or Celtic F.C (previous European Champions etc etc)

I respect everything Stoke have done in the EPL in recent times, your fight has been admirable and true and I believe Tony Pulis is taking your club in the right direction. However any fair minded supporter of either Cardiff City or Stoke would admit that playing for a run of the mill EPL club or for Celtic F.C is a no brainer.

Editor Comment - I never once asked why Stoke can't beat Celtic to a signature, I know we can, if we wave enough money at it, just like we did when Strachan was desperate to get Beattie, the difference being we thought Beattie was worth it and he was at the time (not so much now, do you want him?)

Posted by joe on 07/08/2010

Celtic are a huge club who play in the Champions league. Will stoke get there?

Editor Comment - Loads of teams in the League of Wales play there too

Posted by Paul The Tim on 07/08/2010

We'll be taking Lawrence too x

Editor Comment - You're welcome to him, he can't cut it in the Prem so should be perfect against the lesser players in the SPL x

Posted by G on 07/08/2010

For the record I do like Stoke, I like the way they get in the faces of the big boys, I like the way Tony Pulis stands no nonsense and I like the incredible atmosphere their fans generate at the Britania. But I think Celtic and Rangers are undervalued due to their surroundings. Celtic have been in the last 16 of the Champions League 2 of the last 4 seasons and Rangers have been in a UEFA cup final in that time. These two clubs, with the riches of the EPL would be among the biggest in Europe.

Editor Comment - It would be very interesting to have the Old Firm in the Prem, I'm not against it but both teams if they did that would change significantly as I really don't think the players could do it week in week out

Posted by Matt on 07/08/2010

Utter tripe!

Celtic regularly play in front of 50,000+ fans and also in the European cup unlike the not so mighty Stoke (who?)

In the last few seasons (ok not last season) we have beaten the likes of Man.utd. and Barcelona in European competition so big up your team/league if you want to but at least tell the truth.
Now ok, we only won the European cup once (first British club to do so)and that was in 1967 but England haven't won the world cup since 1966 and that's still on telly every week!

Editor Comment - Stoke are one of the founder members of the football league and the oldest top flight club in the world, thanks for asking. Wwe play the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal (your two biggest games in the last 2 yrs) week in week out.

Posted by jim on 07/08/2010

Stoke? seriously? yes it has the advantage of offering premiership football..but what else? seriously? the fan base is minor compared to celtics..i kind of agree regarding small crowds however..will stoke offer the chance of playing against top european clubs? No!!

Editor Comment - You mean top European clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsnal, Spurs, Everton, Liverpool?

Posted by Joshua on 07/08/2010

Judging your team by the opposition is absurd. "Why would he want to go to Man Utd or Chelsea where they'll be playing the likes of Blackpool and Stoke every week" is an equivalent comment.

Editor Comment - Is that why the old firm have been wanting to get into the English League for so long?

Posted by paradise found on 07/08/2010

James sounds like sour grapes to me.Maybe just maybe when joe ledley weighed things up he said to himself do i want to win leagues, cups,and play in europe.or do i want to fight relagation all season.Not an opition playerswant to win medals.What would he win with stoke the odd man of the match

Editor Comment - Win leagues by playing the equivalent of Championship/League 1 opposition every week. Play in Europe for 2/3 games a year with the biggest games against Premier League opposition

Posted by Gaz on 07/08/2010

Good call, we run a very tight ship at stoke, we were in the same situation this time last year, only had whitehead and then boom, up popped huth and tunny. give it time stokies, we will be all right!!

Editor Comment - I will judge us by the end of the window, I will put money on the fact we will be a better side by the end of it

Posted by Bill Minshall on 07/08/2010

I could not agree more with the sentiments expressed. If money is the overriding factor he is not worth considering.

Posted by CFC1888 on 07/08/2010

Ha! Sour grapes, eh?

This article is a hoot.

Once again the English are sneering down their noses at leagues that aren't as good as their (self-proclaimed) 'best league in the world'.

You'd have thought that after yet another embarrassing exit at the WC finals, the reality that your national team and EPL (as witnessed in last year's CL performances) are nowhere near as good as you think would've finally been drummed in. Judging by the drivel above.....obviously not!

Now why would Ledley sign for Celtic instead of Stoke??? Mmmmm, lets see....

- More money
- The chance to actually win a trophy
- Playing in Europe
- Playing in front of 50,000+ every second week
- Playing in one of the biggest derby matches in world football

....but according to this article he should be signing for Stoke City (yes, that club with the illustrious history) so he can get humped at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge etc and probably end up back in the Championship!

Catch a grip.....

Editor Comment - I never said he should be signing for Stoke, read the article first... As for your reasons;

- More money - You have to pay more to get him
- The chance to actually win a trophy - against mickey mouse teams
- Playing in Europe - for 2/3 games
- Playing in front of 50,000+ every second week - every other week in front of 8000
- Playing in one of the biggest derby matches in world football - that few outside Scotland care about

Posted by Tony Quigley on 07/08/2010

CELTIC are 100x the club stoke are or ever will be yes ok the SPL is not the best standard but he will win titles up here and compete in europe which won't happen at stoke it was good enough for larsson,sutton,bellamy & keane.Also don't try and say you're bothered about cardiff going into administration you're just bitter he chose celtic over stoke.

Editor Comment - I'm certainly not bothered about Cardiff, hope they DO go into administration personally...

it's sad that the best players you quote all had their best years in England and apart from larsson they only stayed there for a year or two. The top scorer in the SPL last season has just signed for a Championship side - that says it all

Posted by O'Connell on 07/08/2010

Eh, when did he get an offer from Spain? You said he had the chance to play in the best league in the world, against the best players in the world...which is La Liga. Anyway the reason good 'ol Joe decided against the mighty Stoke City with their rich football heritage is for two reasons:

1.He will win trophies with Celtic, he would never win a single thing with Stoke.

2.He will play in Europe for Celtic, in either the Champions or Europa League, if he played for Stoke, he wouldn't get the slightest chance at playing in Europe.

So Stoke fans, dry your eyes and stop kidding yourselves that you could have had joe Ledley if you wanted to , he turned you down because he actually retains some ambition as a footballer.


Editor Comment - Winning trophies by beating the likes of Kilmarnock and Ross County must make him all warm and fuzzy inside... Fact is he would rather come to Stoke but we refuse to meet what Celtic are offering because he simply is NOT worth it. Why hasn't he signed yet then if he is so desperate to join you? It couldn't be because he's hoping we change our minds is it? hmmm

Posted by Alex W on 07/08/2010

What a great article. Good to see that there are stoke followers out there who can see the great work being done at our club. I also found it funny that numerous fans of other Premier League clubs were deriding Ledley's lack of ambition for choosing Stoke over the likes of Celtic and Roma when it looked like he was coming to us. Now, Stoke fans are saying he's showing no ambition by moving to Celtic.

I say kudos to Pulis, Scholes and Coates for recognising the disruption caused last season by players coming in and earning much more than first team regulars and for deciding not to fall into the same trap again.


Editor Comment - There is a lot to be said for running a club in a fit and proper manner

Posted by aitchy on 07/08/2010

thanks for sharing your obviously world renowned football knowledge, a very good read. however when talking about playing in front of four figure crowds lol i suggest you do some more research. your stadium is a whopping???? and did you not think that maybe ledly relished the thought of playing european football and actually winning trophies, something he could never achieve with a club as dismall as stoke.


Editor Comment - Happy to share the knowledge... Our stadium holds just under 30,000 thanks, Joe will be playing infront of 8,000 or so every other week. I'm chuffed for him if he wants to win trophies by beating Championship/League 1 standard opposition

Posted by Anon on 07/08/2010

Best league in the world aye right we'll see in a years time when half them go t**s up


Editor Comment - Oh no, are they sending the failures to Scotland now?

Posted by A. White on 07/08/2010

Ledley made the decision that many who dont wear epl tinted glasses would make - stoke are a small club who will again struggle to attain mid table mediocrity and while he would have the chance to play at old trafford etc dont try to pretend it is big games against world class teams every week - i suspect even bolton fans dont dream of playing at the reebok while blackpool are hardly footballing giants. in contrast to this he has the chance to come to a far bigger club with a vastly superior fan base while also testing himself where the REAL big boys play, in major european competitions. by the way your comments on Zigic are somewhat misleading - the transfer fee is only 6 million, hardly a huge fee on a man who not so long ago cost valencia 13.5mil. although his wages will increase the cost of the total package this is spread over a four year contract and if he scores the goals he has been signed for and keeps birmingham in the epl in this time it will prove a good deal.


Editor Comment - Most weeks are against big European sides though, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Villa, Fulham

Posted by The Hooped Baron on 07/08/2010

An awful lot of comment considering Ledley is as you say "little more than a squad filler". I think he doth protest too much ....

This article reeks of everything that is wrong with the English game. You are so far up your own backsides that everything outside the EPL is regarded as a backwater. The result is as witnessed at the World Cup. Failure. English football is good but certainly not near the top of the game. Take away the money and foreign stars and the EPL will collapse under its debt.... or is it already, portsmouth, Liverpool, ManUtd, Cardiff ....how many others?

As far as Celtic is concerned,... twice in the last 16 of the CL in recent years, Uefa Cup final in 2003. We must be doing something right in our wee diddy league or is it that we dont have the luxuries of watching overpaid prima donna's every week and therefore tailor our finances properly. The SPL may be lacking but as a club Celtic will always be at a higher level than the likes of Stoke.

Wakey wakey!!!


Editor Comment - I agree that the premier league is screwed financially and one of the main points of my article is saying that we won't fall foul to that by paying the likes of ledley more money than he is worth

Posted by Castlemilk Celt on 07/08/2010

How can Stoke lose out to Celtic for a player?

And who are Stoke exactly?

Champions league football, 60,000 crowd every 2nd week I know who i'd be choosing. Typical English arrogance thinking use have the best league in the world. World Cup?

Stoke will be lucky to stay up!

Tal


Editor Comment - When did I ask that question exactly? The England team and the English league are two very seperate things.

As for us being lucky to stay up, two mid table finishes would disagree with you

Posted by michael on 07/08/2010

utter drivel from one so hurting. everything wrong with modern football is a team like stoke being able to spend millions upon millions on fees and wages (on the buy now let rupert murdoch pay later) oh the irony..as for stoke being the better team in a better league..spl 2 horse race, epl 2 horse league...and as for furthering his football..mid table in the epl with nowt to play for season after season or winning leagues and cups and getting games just about every season in the champions league, no brainer...as for yer argument about crowds, when was the last time stoke played 15 matches at home with aggregate crowds of over half a million.....dry yer eyes mate


Editor Comment - You criticise Stoke for spending millions and millions and the article is about us refusing to spend money, hmmmm. As for buy now pay later, I think you'll find we're not in debt, can you say the same?

Posted by hoops on 07/08/2010

Celtic are a MUCH better team than stoke so jump down from your high horse, its no surprise that players would favour celtic with the prospects of champions league or at least europa league every season. the only reason celtic are not in the EPL is because the FA and prem clubs alike are scared of a well run club with very little debt stepping and being able to operate on a higher level. Celtic could finish within the top 6 or 7 in the EPL working within there current budget, imagine what they could achieve with the same budget as the top 10 in the EPL.

Room for one more? I would think not.


Editor Comment - We're so scared.... If you came in with the sides you have you would be in the Championship in a year, you have to spend to compete against World Class players unlike when you play against the likes of Dorman and Loy (I had to look them up, has anyone outside of Scotland ever even heard of these players?!)

Posted by moosey on 07/08/2010

will be lining up in the Green and White Hoops against the likes of the mighty St Johnstone, Hamilton and Kilmarnock.


Compared to Wigan, Blackpool and Bolton?


Editor Comment - Hibs, Dundee and inverness, your turn.....

Posted by Mr Anderson on 07/08/2010

Whittaker! How can you put Leeds in the same category as Hull and Pompey???

“a great 15 mins in the limelight” –

3 Top Flight Titles
1 FA Cup
1 League Cup
2 Charity Shields
1 UEFA Cup

Not to mention all the finals and successful campaigns we had in each of these!!!

I compare this to that of Stoke's...

Premier League- Highest finish 11th
First Division- Highest finish 4th (Not bad… but this was in the 30’s & 40’s!!!)
1 League Cup
No FA Cups! Oh but you did win the Watney cup in 73!!!
Never qualified for Europe!!!

...And it is clear there is no comparison.

Even after all the debt (which I add is no more) it’s been worth it because at least we have a history to speak of!!!


Editor Comment - We have plenty of history thanks. The main points I raise about money and ruin are about the advent of the Premier league and the responsibiliy or lack of it with the increased money.

As for how I can put Leeds in the same pot as Pompey and Hull, you're right, they haven't fallen through the Championship yet...

Posted by Tom Clark on 07/08/2010

that article is out of order.It's disrespectful to the scottish teams and it could be missing the point.At celtic he would be playing infront of 60,000 every other week,a bit different to stoke.He CAN test himself against the best players in the world ie champions league.The english premier league isn't the best in the world.england were rubbish and theres hardly any premiership players who were in the semi finals of the world cup.Glasgow is a fine city and it has the most passionate fans in the world.It's a good choice from Joe.


Editor Comment - There were hardly any Prem players in the semi finals - were there many from the SPL?!

Posted by allan cameron on 07/08/2010

is the person who wrote this story having a laugh.
to even compare stoke to celtic is hilarious.
celtic are one of the top ten clubs in the world and if we were thrown money at us by sky like the english teams we would be top 3.
the only people who say that the epl is the best in the world are the delusional english press. ( remember england winning the world cup.lol.).i watch a lot of football on sky and for the last couple of seasons i cant remember a decent game between the lot of them. the only reason stokeare in the running is down to the money from sky, i mean who would seriously consider going to stoke apart from getting a hotel there for a visit to alton towers.
as for the mighty kilmarnock, st johnstone etc the only thing mighty about the epl is the size of their budget.
its only a 2 team league the same as ours.


Editor Comment - I stopped taking you seriously when you said you were one of the top ten clubs in the world..

Posted by John Potter on 07/08/2010

I agree with virtually all of that, James. We'd be stupid to raise our offer to Ledley above what we think he is worth purely because Celtic have offered more because they won't have to pay compensation and we will.

Anyone know why transfers of young players to countries outside the league system have different rules to transfers of the same players within the league system. It seems stupid and means "foreign" clubs have the advantage. Batter to bring our rules in line with the relevant UEFA rule, I'd have thought.

I'm not worried about losing Ledley - I think we've moved on since TP was first interested and he would probably be a squad player now. Although I have no love for Cardiff, I'd be livid if I was a Blue Bird fan. Ledley, who claims to be a fan from birth, has shafted them good and proper - I doubt if he will be welcome if/when he goes home to see his family.


Editor Comment - The training compensation rule is a funny one, I'm not sure if we get similar advantages from elsewhere in Europe?

Posted by Bernie Cresswell on 07/08/2010

I do not know if Joe Ledley has indeed favoured Celtic instead of Stoke as you obviously assume in your article. However, the offhand way in which you slag off Celtic Footbal Club and indeed Joe Ledley suggest you are privy to the negotiations that have been ongoing for some weeks now. Just for your information.....The EPL is full of overpaid and vastly overated football players that are funded by SKY tv. A quick look at England's results at the very recent World Cup Finals where they were humbled by the mighty Algeria and USA which your country's favourite newspaper headlined as EASY! confirms this as Wayne Rooney who scores for fun in that league drew a blank over 4 games. The might of St Johnstone, Hamilton and all maybe Joe's next port of call but to indeed insinuate that he is joining a lesser club in the form of Celtic has left me with the impression that you are a muppet and or dilusional!! I think you are our "Plonker of the week me ole china!"


Editor Comment - Thanks for your thoughts Bernie. I couldn't agree more with your take on the Premier League, I can't stand most of the Big 4 and their players, the fact is though, it's where most of the World's professionals want to play

Posted by getthecigarsout on 07/08/2010

Do you honestly think any player in the world would want to play for Stoke before Celtic? LOL

Have Stoke ever won anything or even been in Europe?

Reality check dudes, Stoke are a nothing club. Always have been, always will be.

Editor Comment - Beattie did...

Posted by robert harvey on 07/08/2010

i can understand your frustration at losing out on ledley but unless you are aware of the size of celtic football club then please stop your whinging re money.better players than ledley have come to celtic because of who we are not the league we play in,but the club.the WORLDWIDE support,the european tradition,the chance to play in front of 60,000 people every 2nd week until you have experienced the adulation that comes with playing for our club you will never understand anyway why would stoke need midfielders when they kick and throw the ball from back to front


Editor Comment - So you think he would come to Celtic for less money then? I don't think so....

Posted by The Arlo Guthrie Fanclub on 07/08/2010

More insular nonsense from the self styled "best league in the world". Catch a grip son, your league, outside the top 5 or 6, is woeful beyond belief. Your club is a nonentity in global terms whereas Celtic fill stadia worldwide.

Perhaps Joe Ledley merely wants to look at his CV after his career and see that he played for one of Europes elite clubs, that he won medals. More importantly, perhaps he wants to be able to look back and say he was ambitious enough not to settle for a couple of seasons of mid-table mediocrity followed by the relegation which WILL follow.

To accuse someone of lacking ambition for signing for a former European Cup winning club is just stupid. But then the EPL doesn't do irony, does it?


Editor Comment - You clearly do...You think Joe will look at his CV and be glad he tested his wits week in week out against Hamilton, Ross, Kilmarnock and Dundee? No, neither do I..

Posted by DB on 07/08/2010

Celtic - in a European final 7 years ago, have competed with Barca, AC Milan, United, Liverpool, Ajax, Bayern, Lyon, Villarreal etc in the last few years, 60,000 seater stadium, chance of winning medals, a European pedigree with 2 European Cup finals and one win in 1967, a world-famous name, a litany of great players to have worn the jersey.

Stoke - your aim is to stay up.

This article really shows what's wrong with the English mentality. It's why your national team continuously fail. The EPL is NOT the best league in the world. Just because you're told that does not make it so. There is football outside the Premiership.

In fact, a player turning down the chance to play for Celtic FC to fight relegation in the EPL with smaller clubs - that's what wrong with modern football.

Pull your head out of the sand, man!


Editor Comment - Why would he be fighting relegation with a mid table side? Why would he get any satisfaction from upping his game for the Old Firm every year and waltzing past the rest of the dross every other week

Posted by Gary on 07/08/2010

from celtic's point of view Ledley is an ideal signing because he is a bosman, i don't know much stoke city will have to spent on transfers but celtic can't compete with EPL and i think that is why celtic went the extra mile to secure his services. There is no doubt the attraction of EPL football is important but Ledley will get european football the chance to play in front of 60,000 home supporters and most importantly the high probability of silverware.I would of understood if he turned celtic down to play in the Premiership but stoke isn't a big gun and the exposure isn't the same for a player wanting to improve and get to the top of the game. I feel your article is very negative towards celtic, its obvious the SPL is not up to scratch but Celtic Football Club is one of the best simply because of its wonderful support no matter where it goes.


Editor Comment - Hi Gary, it was never meant to be a slight on Celtic to be honest, it was more based on what Joe has always said and the fact his move at the end of the day was down to money. It is a good deal for Celtic financially as you say due to not having to pay compensation. but 25k/week plus around £3m compensation for us is not good value for a squad player

Posted by StokieUK on 07/08/2010

Just what is the point in talking sense? That'll get you nowhere ;)

Couldn't agree more with your article.


Editor Comment - I know, it's a radical concept!

Posted by Ciaran on 07/08/2010

"how can Stoke lose out to Celtic for a player, someone needs to be sacked!!

I will give you 60,000 reasons and european football as 2 very plausible reasons why Joe has (hopefully) choosen the green and whites. Why do you claim financial issues as a reason, when Celtic receive 1mil per year whereas Stoke get 35 times that!, Playing for Celtic is an honor and a privilege for any player and Joe has the chance of becoming a footballing legend, like Dalgleish, Larson etc. The chance to turn down the choice of playing week in week out in front of 60,000 passionate fans must be enough to turn any footballers head, along with 1st class training facilities at Lennoxtown, I'm afraid my friend when the choice has to be made, Celtic will win all the time. Hail Hail

Posted by Rab on 07/08/2010

Questioning a player for moving to one of the biggest clubs in the world instead of Stoke City.

The lunatics really have taken over the asylum in EPL land.

ps.

The EPL may be the richest league in the world.

The best ?

Dont make me laugh,every man and his dog knows thats La Liga.

Take your head out of Sky's backside.

Posted by Jon Turner on 07/08/2010

Spot on article. I admit to perversely checking other forums to pick up any hints of 'new signings', but in reality, I am so proud of the way our club goes about our business. Players who are leaving are peripheral to our mid table 1st team - and that is the key...with no signings, and none of the first 15 leaving, we will still be a competitive and safe PL team. If we can add 2 or 3 bits of quality in the right places, we are looking upwards.


Editor Comment - Exactly, no need for panic stations just yet, we finished 11th and it could have been 10th too..

Posted by Peter Lawwell on 07/08/2010

Could you have blown Celtic out the water? Doubtful. Listen, let's be honest here. You have a few quid, courtesy of Sky, however, like the other wastes of space in the Premiership i.e. your Boltons, Wigans, Wolves', Birminghams, Blackpools et al, you are happy to keep accepting the money from the league kitty, but do not want to invest it in players that could be the difference between you staying up and going down. The boy's moving to a 2 team league, granted, (only Man Utd and Chelsea have had a hope of winning the Prem in the last 5 or 6 years)but he is going to a club bigger than Stoke can ever be, so that defeats the ambition argument. I find it incredible that fans of your type of team are happy to use the teams who do want to improve themselves in order to get themselves players (Your comment about Ledley not wanting to pit his wits against some of the best). Im sure he would have went to a big team had he the chance but at the end of the day you are Stoke City...no more no less


Editor Comment - Could we have blown you out of the water? Yes

Strachan - "It's hard work. Look at Beattie. I know James very well and he went to Stoke this week. I speak to him regularly and we couldn't have afforded him. I already knew what he earns, so you could forget about signing him.'


Posted by mick on 07/08/2010

would celtic have signed ledley for 3million plus 25k per week I doubt it!. Ledley has gone to a league where he will play in only four major games a season which celtic will proberly lose.ps what did celtic win last season in a league of limited major games.......nothing

Editor Comment - I didn't even know that, oh dear...

Posted by Dave on 07/08/2010

Reports in Cardiff are that Stoke withdrew their offer, because his agent was trying to play the clubs off,so he didn't have a choice to make.

Celtic are a much bigger club, but in a very weak league. You only have to look at the level of signings they are making, Boateng was a great player but washed up, Ledley championship player who John Hartson said wouldn't hack it, Bullard another good player but they'll be lucky to get 10 games out of him.

Editor Comment - Bullard could be good if his knee stands up, but Ledley unproven...

Posted by Jaimie on 07/08/2010

Poor article and fails to realise how big a team Celtic actually are, which is reflected in editors replies to other peoples comments. Face facts that stoke are a smaller team compared to Celtic. Ledley will be playing against similar oppostioin to what he had in the Championship but will be playing with better players, in a bigger stadium and training in better facilities than Stoke can offer.

Add to the fact that he will have a bigger fanbase supporting him all over the world and the chance to play in Europe and win domestic honours it should come as no shock that he wishes to play at Celtic rather than Stoke. If he proves to be a success he can still play in the EPL with a top team or continue at Celtic where he may have chance to become a legend.

Just because you play in the EPL isn't a big enough reason to sign for a team.

Editor Comment - Many would disagree with your last point...

Posted by scanjet on 07/08/2010

talking of delusions of grandure celtic so called great loyal fans left in there droves didnt they

when rangers were ruling your 2bob leauge last season then they play rangers and they are bac bigger than us you may be but as loyal as us no way.

Editor Comment - That's right, there were thousands of empty seats, what of all these passionate fans?!

Posted by Craig on 07/08/2010

Scottish Premier or EPL, now let me think?

Celtic are the equivalent of Linfield and Total Network Solutions in Europe if Ledley wants that standard he is welcome

Posted by James on 07/08/2010

You're in a rubbish league, probably one of the worse there are, you have no money and are you heck a team that has won loads of trophies, you occasionally win the Scottish Cup and the SPL, and to be honest if Stoke were in either of those we would win them because Scotlands best team (Rangers) are nothing but a shadow to the bottom teams in the Premiership. The SPL is just a poor excuse of a league. England has the best fans in the world by far and the best league,

Editor Comment - tell them what you really think James ;)

Posted by Dust want a Sent'nel Duck? on 07/08/2010

Celtic are a much much bigger club than Stoke. They have had more historical success also (though a lot of this is to with the 'standard' of football in Scotland).

They can also attract 60,000 every other week, when they are winning the League.

But lets not kid ourselves by suggesting the Ledley's head has been turned by the attraction of European football? For christs's sake, where's the 'pull' in getting turned over on a cold wintry night in Estonia? If he wanted that so badly, he could have stayed in Wales, and gone to TNS.

Forget the £5k per week. He's chosen the easy option, maybe because in the full glare of the multi-millions watching the 'EPL' worldwide, he suspects he just wouldn't cut it.

Oh, and the theory that the top 4 or 5 sides in the SPL would survive in the EPL is ludicrous (and I'm not a firm believer that the EPL is the 'best in the world')

Editor Comment - Interesting thought, his self confidence must have taken a dive after a few years of not living up to the promise he showed, did he bottle it?

Posted by TJ on 07/08/2010

And Stoke have delusions of grandeur?

The all-time top scorer in your league has just moved to the Championship. That just sums up exactly how your league (and even the best teams in it)compare to the English leagues.

Yes Ledley would have the chance to win trophies there, but that means nothing, the fact that only 2 teams even have a chance to win the title seriously devalues it, (same as in Spain, although the best teams there have a chance at winning the Champions League.)

One of the biggest derbies in world football? Nowhere near, hardly anyone out of Scotland could care less what the result was, let alone be desperate to watch it. Real - Barca IS one of the biggest in the world, and it really puts yours in the shade.

Good luck anyway Joe, not particularly bothered that you didn't come to Stoke, same as most of our fans, but I like you much more now you have shafted Cardiff!

Posted by scotpotter on 07/08/2010

Mickey mouse league, mickey mouse trophies, why did Ledley not pick the Blue Square Premier? Anyway Celtic will be playing in the Europa league (Austria Wien & Bruges etc)as they have no chance of playing in the CL group. From next year Scottish clubs will not qualify because they won't get past the qualifying stages. As for selling him on for 5-8m I don't think so, his stock will plummet. This boy lacks ambition and has no self belief if he thinks the SPL is a step up.

Posted by liam mellor on 07/08/2010

Ledley is definately average,as are Celtic. Look at the players they are signing....Ledley chased the £ sign.......

Posted by IlfordDave on 07/08/2010

A bullet dodged by Stoke IMHO, why were even chasing a player that hasn't even been anywhere near the best player at Cardiff, never mind the championship ?

He has shown he would rather take the money and play in a poor league, than really challenge himself in the Premier League, and as for loyalty, he's just s**t on his boyhood club from a big height.

PS to the Celetic fans, 60,000 stadium you may have, but your crowds dropped off a bit at the end of last season didn't they, lower than Stoke's I believe ;). The issue of "standard of football" is this, plain and simple, apart from Celtic and Rangers, there isn't a team north of the border that is better than a middling Championship side, and it is debatable how many places higher than 17th either of you would finish in the Premier League.. I have no doubt IF you survived ONE season you would evolve and improve, but there really is no guarantee that you wouldn't be relegated first time out ......

Posted by Celtic Bhoy on 07/08/2010

you say that you could have blown celtic away with the contract we offered ?? well i think you should rethink that we have two of the richest people in britain. dennis O'Brien who has over 2.2 Billion Euros/1.8 Billion Pounds and Dermot Desmod 2billion euros/1.5 billion pounds and the both massive irish celtic fans and we have less than 1 million pound debt for a club thats turnover was 36mil for half a season.

also you said that the likes of sutton,bellamy and others only came to scotland at the end of their years but we took bellamy when he was still quite young for 6months on loan from newcastle and he says it was the best clubs he has been at and he would walk back up to glasgow if they could afford his wages and today sutton also says his happiest times were at celtic and he wishes he could relive those moments,and larsson rejected man utd when he was in his pime just to stay at celtic, who would say those things about stoke.

Editor Comment - See Strachans comments, oh, and also your own -"we have two of the richest people in britain" and then you said of Bellamy. "He would walk back up to glasgow if they could afford his wages " - so which is it?

Posted by Jerrid on 07/08/2010

Craig - get a sense of perspective. I'm glad that Stoke fans are proud of their heritage, as they should be, but I don't know what planet you're on when you compare Celtic in Europe with Linfield and Total Network Solutions. Celtic was the first team in Britain to win the European Cup and arguably it was Jock Stein who invented 'total football' in the 1960s. We reached 3 European finals, taking over 100,000 fans to Seville for the EUFA Cup Final - huge party (and no trouble BTW). And when we do play the best of England's top flight, we do very well, thank you!

And it's not a choice of SPL v EPL, or of Celtic v Stoke - it's Celtic (in the SPL) v Stoke (in the EPL) - not a straightforward choice for everybody, (although for me it seems an obvious one!).

As for attendance, it's true that our average gate was poor last year at 46,000, but that's still 170% of Stoke's average attendance and 135% of the average EPL attendance.

It's all about PERSPECTIVE (as Roddy Frame would put it!)

Editor Comment - In terms of the crowds though, if you're honest it's one of the two teams and the rest are dross, of course you are going to get that many people, where else are they going to go?

Posted by Jerrid on 07/08/2010

I'm trying to be fair and reasonable here about attendances. Scotland has a population of around 9% that of England. Last season, which was, by my own admission, a poor season in terms of attendances at Celtic Park, yet only two EPL grounds had bigger average attendances than Celtic Park - Old Trafford and the Emirates. That's not bad for a small league in a bad year! And I think it puts Craig's ludicrous comparison with Linfield and Total Network Solutions in perspective - it was his comment that I was answering. Hail! Hail!

Editor Comment - But what is the alternative? Taking your example of Arsenal, there are a handful of Premier League clubs within 10 miles of them or so...

Posted by Dust want a Sent'nel Duck? on 07/08/2010

It's the opinion of many that the SPL is pretty poor, and aside of the top two sides, the standard is diabolically poor. Robbie Keane's recent foray proved that from 4th place down, the rest are cannon-fodder, and therefore any player moving up to the SPL whilst in their 'prime' can only be doing so for either the money, or for an 'easy ride'. 4 competitive games a season shouldn't float any professional footballer's boat.

Jerrid..there's no beef at all I don't think with Celtic as a club, in fact I have a bit of time for you, mainly through an irrational dislike of the blue half of Glasgow...however the comparison with TNS and Linfield isn't meant as a direct comparison of clubs, more a comparison of the 'European experience' that Ledley may get from joining your lot.

I happen to think that this guy is still unproven, and may well go on to pull up trees, but weve found to our considerable cost within the last 2 years that 'top', proven CCC players, can't cut it in the EPL at all.

Editor Comment - Good post...

Posted by Mr Sausage on 07/08/2010

I personally would have liked Ledley to sign for Stoke,but he's proven himself to be a typical modern day mercenary.

Celtic play in a VERY poor league. They would fail miserably in the premiership and are living on past glories.

Editor Comment - Cheers Sausage, had to edit it a bit mind ;)

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/08/2010

James - an interesting and well written article and a far more measured response than many I have read on various Stoke & Cardiff fan sites. Indeed, the sheer volume of speculative posts and articles across the wonderful web on his proposed move just go to show that many more fans than you may care to admit actually do care about Joes final choice of club. You are correct in what you say regarding the standard of the SPL, but I fear you, like many others, have been spoonfed the myth peddled by SKY regarding the self-styled 'greatest league in the world' for too long. Yes, Stoke play in the EPL, but in reality, the EPL is 3 min-leagues in one. The top 8 will monopolise the CL and Europa Cup spots, while Stoke will always be involved in a battle at the 'wrong end' of the EPL. For the past 2 years, you have finished bang in the middle of the 'middle league'. At the start of each season, your board will set Pulis a target - stay away from the bottom 6 - and anything else is a bonus. (tbc)

Posted by Anonymous on 07/08/2010

cont You have had relative success in the last 2 seasons and are to be congratulated for not over-spending and joining the list of clubs who overspend when chasing the SKY big bucks. Consolidation is the name of the game and you have had relative success in achieving this. However, with the fresh injection of cash following SKYs increased deals in selling the rights to the far east, I fear that your clubs prudent approach may see you outspent by other clubs in the mad panic to avoid the 'drop'. Young Joe might think along the same lines. Yes, he has stated that he wants to appear in the EPL, but maybe he had set his sights slightly higher. Just maybe two or three years in the limelight, winning medals and silverware, gaining European experience and rebuilding his form and confidence at Celtic may just get him that move to a 'real' EPL club that he craves. He has time and youth on his side, so maybe a move to Celtic may not be the 'lowering of ambition' that you accused him of earlier!

Editor Comment - Good post

Posted by celtdavy on 07/08/2010

As a Celtic fan I hope Joe turns out to be a good signing for us i also hope that your team do well next season as i think your fans have been very passonate in their support of your team unlike most EPL sides. I also hope that you and most other EPL supporters could realise that most EPL games are ordinary and maybe watch games from other leagues to broaden your football horizions as your article in my opinion smacks a little of EPL arogance

yours in football
celtdavy

Editor Comment - Cheers DavyIn terms of broadening my football horizons, being just over 30, I have spent all but the last 2 seasons supporting my team in lovely places like Gillingham, Hartlepool, Huddersfield etc. All we have heard in that time in how good the Premier League is, I've watched the talent come in and loved every minute of it and prayed as long as I remember that my team would once be there on MOTD on a Saturday night. It's not arrogance, it's pretty much accepted in Football that the Premier League IS the best league in the World, not a day goes by when a player is saying it's where they dream of playing, you'll hear more of it after the World Cup I'm sure..

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/08/2010

in response to Celtic Bhoy, I think you miss the point with Dennis O'Brien and DD. As a PLC, Celtic cannot just ask for a bung, regardless of how rich these two are. It is just a question of relative finance. Celtic get approx 2.5M a season for TV revenue. THe bottom EPL team gets close to 36M.
There is no doubt that given an even playing field, Celtic would attract the best of the EPL. But the playing field is not even, so we dont. To pinch a young internationalist from under the noses of a cash-rich but history-poor club like Stoke is not much of an achievement I grant you, but to argue that his choice is based purely on a lack of ambition and an extra 5K a week is just ignorant and wrong.

Editor Comment - I have to take umbridge with your 'history poor' comment, we are a founder member of the football league, the oldest top flight club in the World with stars like Banks, Hurst and the great Sir Stanley wearing the red and white stripes, our city famous for it's industry and world renowned to this day for it's contributions in that respect.

As it turns out, ironically even with the extra money, it still seems that it isn't enough and noises are being made he is trying to call Stoke's bluff into making a better offer. Doesn't sound so desperate to join the mighty Celtic to me?

Posted by Stokie 111 on 07/08/2010

Love it how Celtic fans talk of being on of the greatest clubs in the world while talking of their recent signing of Joe chuffing Ledley. Most Stokies are relieved this shower of s***e didn't come to Stoke, he was mediocre in the Championship so he'll fit right in up in Jockland.

As for laughing at our WC campaign, how did yours go? You couldn't make this level of irony up.

Get real boys, at this current time, Stoke have a lot more to offer than Celtic. Premier League football week-in week-out, the loudest fans in England, an up and coming, progressing club which is improving every year, sold-out crowds every week, beating the likes of Villa, Spurs and Arsenal.

For those who doubt the Premier League, Mallorca cam 5th in La Liga for gods sake? The same position Man Citeh achieved in the Prem.

Editor Comment - Seems he hasn't even signed yet and the noises being made aren't too promising for Celtic, I just hope he doesn't end up at Stoke..

I was also pretty bewildered at the World Cup digs, glass houses and all that...

Posted by alex on 07/08/2010

Typical English arrogance.

Celtic as a club is world renowned,fans in every corner of the Globe with a litany of silverware only Stoke could dream of.

Yeah we can no longer compete with the EPL in terms of the big transfer deals and wages because you are subsidised by the sky money, if Celtic were in the EPL and getting the same tv money then we'd attract the world class players I have no doubt.

In terms of the St Johnstone's and Hamilton, we can only beat what's put in front of us, if Celtic could get out of the SPL they would.

I can understand the frustration at missing out on him but making Celtic out to be a lesser club than Stoke just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Editor Comment - Doesn't sound like he has signed yet, so don't get too excited. I'm sure Celtic would love to be in the Prem and would attract better players than Stoke BUT they would have to change their team considerably to be competitive in a much harder league

Posted by Robbie on 07/09/2010

I had the misfortune of having Scottish football broadcast live into my home for the whole of last season. It was like watching a bunch of amateurs scrap it out on the park. Absolutely dire and a shameful reflection of the game. Ledley might be a star for Celtic, but he would only warm the bench of the worst Premier league team. Just because 60,000 idiots turn up to watch a crap game, it doesn't mean it is any good. McGeady is the only player who might cut in in the EPL, but even that is up for debate - since he's only gone up against third-rate defenders who don't know where their own goal is.
Liam Lawrence was picked before McGeady for Ireland, and Lawrence was warming the Stoke bench at the time.

Editor Comment - Not much happening on the Liam front, not sure if hisform would pick up again once Beattie goes or not. He was poot last season and I have doubts he can consistently turn in Premier League performances, he is a good squad player, though to his credit, he would rather play

Posted by gregory ong on 07/09/2010

I have been a stoke supporter for the last 38 years. Don't blame ledley for moving to Celtic. Its his perogative. Whatever the surrounding reasons, the fact is stoke have only just come back to the big time after 20 odd years in the lower leagues. The fact is Celtic are a bigger name than stoke. Presently, stoke has nothing other than 2 mid table finishes to attract players. The real issue is how is stoke going to progress to the next level to attract the likes of ledley or better. Our style of football whilst effective is limited in its progress. Are we prepared to take the risk and change this style overnight? If we maintain status quo, we will not win any trophies or get anywhere other than mid table. Time is not on our side. For me change has to start from the top. So, if Pulis is not able to achieve progress to the next level than I say, get a manager with a bigger reputation. Maybe we can get players who are prepared to come for less money out of respect for the manager.

Editor Comment - Controversial Greg! I am pro Pulis personally and you only have to look at the progress under him to see it would be stupid to get rid now. Our first season in the Prem saw us platy much more long ball than last, our away form was the worst in the league, yet last season it was one of the best. Our style will not change overnight but we need to be settled and consistenly safe and we will see more Tuncays and Etheringtons come in and the more that do, the better the likes of those two will play which will only benefit us

Posted by percyfilth on 07/09/2010

It apppears Super Joe has left Scotland without signing for the Hoops after all.Is this deal dead in the water? Has pressure been applied to Ledley from Wales or by his family? I hope he decides his future is in Scotland or is it his agent thats pushing him that way for the money and Joe would have happily signed for Stoke . As A Stoke fan i hope he goes to Celtic.. i really dont rate the guy. He is a fairly average Joe in my opinion. Mcgeady i would have.

Editor Comment - Yes, a lot of Stokies worrying now that having failed to call our bluff he is on his way with his tail between his legs to accept a lesser offer and test himself in the Prem. As for McGeady, he flatters to decieve, Trappatoni knows he isn;t good enough to take on World Class defenders and I think he would be a huge flop in the Prem

Posted by michael on 07/09/2010

Just ask a certain great (h larsson) why he chose to play at his peak for one of the worlds most famous teams then wind his career down in the epl

thats the lure of celtic that sometimes the so called mighty man u cant even compete with

Editor Comment - Some players like to be a big fish in a little pond, one player doesn't really prove a point, for every Larsson there are infinitly more who refuse to...

Posted by SandbachStokie on 07/09/2010

Can Celtic fans answer this:

If the Hoops are such a better prospect for the player than Stoke, how come you had to offer 25% more wages to attract him??

Editor Comment - ...and even then he still hasn't signed

Posted by tom watson on 07/09/2010

if celtic are so good, why would you want to sign a player who struggled to get into the stoke squad last season (lawrence) you bunch of mugs!

Posted by Matt on 07/09/2010

The manner in which the Celtic supporters on here are labelling Stoke fans "delusional" epotomises the word irony.

Celtic were once a big club in terms of stature, due to the quality of the players they had and their ability to progress through the Champions League to a good degree. However, the only aspects which now represent a big club are the fans. Stoke would be a much better move than Celtic for one simple reason, to progress his career. Celtic would most definitely be a sideward step for him, if not backwards. The level of football in the SPL is poor bar the two big teams, and I find it hard to believe that regardless of Ledleys performances in that league, he would ever move further than a team of Stokes stature. This is contrasted to a Stoke City side who have finished mid-table for two seasons in a row, are financially stable, and have all the foundations in place to improve even better.

Think I know the answer...

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/09/2010

Matt - not suggesting that Stoke fans are delusional, but in my opinion, your team has already hit its glass ceiling. Maybe Joe thinks the same. I bet that many a youngster dreams of signing for an EPL team - how many of them do you reckon have Stoke in mind though? A move to Celtic for a 23 year old Championship player could just be what is needed to put himself in the frame for a move to a 'real' Premiership club. Three years of European football against the likes of Milan, Barca etc coupled with the experience of playing in a high pressure atmosphere and gaining some silverware might just catch the eye of Hodgson, O'Neill, Wenger or Rednapp rather than Pulis. Maybe he doesnt fancy your effective but limited style of play. Maybe he feels that the Stoke financial structure will see them struggle in the next few years as an increasing number of clubs continue to spend more than they earn in their efforts to avoid the drop. Or just maybe, Lennon made him feel more wanted?

Editor Comment - You might want to check your facts on our Chairman, a multi millionaire owner whose wealth is more than £600m and growing, a local fan and businessman who turned a profit last year whilst clubs were going into Administration for fun.

As for what Ledley fancies, right now it looks like anywhere but Celtic...

Posted by Previous on 07/09/2010

No need to check my facts as I did not refer once to your chairman in any of my posts. It doesnt matter how much your chairman is worth. What you should be concerned about is how deep are his pockets. Many of your fellow fans have pointed to Stokes financial prudence in the EPL while others spend money they cant afford over the longer term. You have referred to the fact that Stoke are one of the few clubs to turn a profit. Are you confident that your chairman will abandon all financial sense if the going gets tough this season? As I said, I reckon your team has hit its glass ceiling and you may well struggle to match an 11th place finish this time round. You will be outspent by most of your fellow EPL teams, so avoiding the bottom 6 will be your aim again. This could be why Joe isnt biting off the hand of Pulis to join a club on its way down. Obviously, the SPL cant match the competition offered by the EPL, but 3 years up here might get him a place in a team way above 12th to 16th!

Editor Comment - You suggested we could be in financial trouble, our Chairman bought the club, bought the ground outright, spent over £20m of his own money on signings so we turn a profit and pumped another £6m into a new training complex, he won't walk away, he will pass on the reigns to his son/daughter who are also Stoke mad. As for being outspent, it's not a race, we will spend money in the areas we need to, my guess is we will top our transfer record at least once..

Has Joe signed yet?

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/09/2010

I didnt suggest your club was in financial trouble. On the contrary, I mentioned that you were a well run little unit. What i did question was whether your chairman would get embroiled in the inevitable spiral of over-spending on average players next January if it looks like you may struggle to avoid the drop. I also suggested that Joe might fancy a few years enhancing his reputation, winning trophies and developing in the hope of a move to a decent EPL team. It is perfectly feasible that in three years time, your team could well be fighting Leeds, Forest, Swansea and Boro etc to get back into the EPL. Maybe this is what is putting him off. And as for your last question, not yet, but I do know that he has already recorded an interview for Celtic TV, and our chairman tonight was quoted at a fans Q&A that he has no concerns and that Joe will be joining the squad on the trip to the States at the beginning of next week. PS need any spare Windolene to keep that glass ceiling clean?

Editor Comment - Why would our Chairman start overspending on average players? The whole article details that is what we have refused to do with Ledley and yet STILL, despite the mighty Celtic offering thousands more and a bigger signing on fee he is considering our offer that we won't budge on..

As for your assertion we will be in the Championship in 3 yrs, based on what exactly? We have got better and better since the Chairman came in and have now had 2 mid table Premier League finishes. Please try harder...

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/10/2010

Your original article was well argued and measured, but your subsequent replies would suggest that this was merely a fluke. Nowhere did I 'assert' that Stoke would be in the Championship. I argued that it was a possibility, and the past form of other 'yo-yo' clubs would add credence to that. I did argue that your chairman may start overspending on average players, and your prediction that you would 'top your transfer record' seems to back this up. You claim that Stoke have got better and better, despite the fact you won less games last season than in 08/09. You did improve by a less than impressive 2 points, but my previous post suggested that this could be you at your glass ceiling. After 2 seasons of long ball tactics and less than a goal a game average, I would suggest that others may just have figured out Tonys tactical masterplan for this coming season. That is why i think you will struggle, and that is why Joe isnt exactly jumping at the chance to join a team on its way back down

Editor Comment - You really are struggling now... you said "the past form of other yo-yo clubs would add credence" (to us going into the Championship) so we're a yo-yo club then? Absolutely zero evidence of that EVER?!

As for others figuring us out - West Ham sure struggled to...by the way, has Joe signed yet or is he still praying someone else will up their offer so he doesn't have to go to Scotland?

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/10/2010

Nearly forgot - which offer is this that you refer to that Stoke arent budging on? Pulis has said that no offer has been made - Cardiff have said that a player swap while Joe was still under contract was suggested but quickly rejected. Do you have inside info that nobody else in the press or media is aware of? You are wasted on this site - with scoops like that, you could get a job with the Sun!

Editor Comment - It's well known locally that an offer is on the table for a lot less than Celtic are waving in front of him (overspending on average Joes is a dangerous game I was once told)

This from the local paper with close ties to the club;

Celtic have reportedly offered Ledley a four-year deal worth £25,000 a week, while Stoke's four-year offer is believed to range between £15,000 and £20,000 per week.

I truly hope he does sign for you, he is a very, very average player and when he didn't put pen to paper when he was up there last week, a lot of stokies got veeery nervous he was on his way here - let's hope not

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/11/2010

seems increasingly likely that he will sign for Celtic but as you say, nothing is certain. Just such a shame that you have so little faith in the judgement of your manager - first he tried to get him in a swap deal, then theres this unreportable 'offer on the table' from Tony, yet the way you talk, the large majority of the Stoke fanbase (if large is not a contradiction in terms when referring to the number of 'Stokies'?) actually want Pulis to fail in his prolonged chase for Joe. Anyway, flying out to Philadelphia tonight for the pre-season tour, so adieu, and enjoy your struggle for mid-table anonimity this season

Editor Comment - Make your mind up, is it a relegation battle or mid table anonymity? I WILL be looking forward to the season watching my team play against Spurs and Chelsea in August as you no doubt almost explode with excitement as you face......Inverness, St Mirren and Motherwell, still, at least Joe might look half decent against such poor opposition

Posted by hairlikespaghetti on 07/12/2010

I see that you have just stopped posting anything that contradicts your optimistic view of Stokes chances this season - it seems like the lure of a season fighting Bolton & Blackpool for 17th wasnt enough to lure Joe to the bright lights of the Potteries after all then!!!

Editor Comment - I've stopped posting anything that contradicts my view of our chances this season? What are you on about? Yes, seems average Joe finally decided to plump for Celtic and their 10k more a week - great character that, and chasing the likes of Bullard now who it seems would prefer to stay in the Championship...

Posted by blackpoolforsurvival on 07/16/2010

I don't really think Stoke needs another midfielder to be honest. What they do need is a prolific scorer, like Beckford when he was at Leeds.

As much as I love Stoke in Football Manager, i'd rather accept a Celtic contract. Looks good on my CV.

Editor Comment - We definately need 2 or 3 midfielders, but we need at least two who can walk into the team, Ledley wasn't one who could..

As for Celtic looking good on a CV, I'd have to disagree, last season's top scorer in the SPL is now in the Championship with Boro - says all you need to know about the difference between the SPL and the Premier League.

All the best for the season ahead Blackpool!

Posted by mightypotters on 07/17/2010

i swear that rangers and celtic have been trying to get in the premiership for years now because it is a much better league. and celtic have just signed daryl murphy ffs, he scored like 4 goals in the championship last season

Editor Comment - logic seems to be lost on most here mightpotters, I see Chris Eagles turned down a move to the Scottish Champions to stay in the Championship too...

Posted by Editor Comment on 07/28/2010

Wow, I hope Joe really enjoyed the thrill of all this European Football you all bleated about... 3-0 so far in the biggest game of your season.

Still, there's always next season eh Joe?

Whereas we'll look forward to facing Spurs and Chelsea in August alone...

Posted by stokiered/white/andabitofblue;) on 07/28/2010

i dont care what anyone says...scottish league football has been on its arse for years now,good luck to him,but make no mistake..he has taken a backward step from cardiff..never mind the potential the prem and stoke could have gave him!!!.if ANYONE thinks otherwise then they are totally deluded. imho we have dodged a big bullet in not chasing ledley,if we had really wanted him..then believe me..we would have got him.well done tony.

Editor Comment - Agreed, also I see from this mornings papers that David James is rumoured to have turned down Celtic in favour of a move to the Championship with the mighty Bristol City...

Posted by Stokie on 07/29/2010

What I find funny is that most Celtic fans dont come from Glasgow and have abandoned their local clubs to 'support' Celtic from the comfort of their armchairs.

This has in turn basically killed off the game as a competitive event outside of Glasgow and means that their is zero attraction monetary wise in TV companies investing big money in Scotland.

This in turn means that Celtic have no hope when competing in the Champions League leaving their 'fans' at best dreaming of the past and at worst moaning and groaning about wanting to play with the 'big boys' in the Premire League.

Authors of your own destiny - You surely are !

Editor Comment - Good post Stokie, I found it staggering that I couldn't find such a big club's European game on any channel whatsoever last night and I've got every single one that's available to me!

Posted by Stokie5554 on 07/29/2010

I don't know who Celtic fans think they are, You play against nobodys everyweek apart from Rangers. I agree Celtic are a good side but only in the SPL if you come to England and played in the premierleague then you wouldn't be a top half team you'd be mid table as proven in europe when Arsenal and United stuff you all the time. Anyhow i'm glad you got thrashed in Europe last night, and i hope for your own sakes you come down to earth and realise how poor your league is and how poor you would be if you played anyone good.

REGARDS

Stoke

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About
James Whittaker James Whittaker is a football writer and ardent Stoke fan. Having moved to Leeds as a youngster his father refused to take him to his local Championship winning side and instead insisted he chose the Third Division team of his forefathers, Stoke City. Since then there has been no looking back and having been brought up on a diet of Dave Rowson, Kyle Lightbourne and John Gayle, is now embracing the dizzy heights of the top flight for the first time in his life. Fiercely loyal, though always welcoming sensible chat and debate, you can find him on Twitter @ESPN_Stoke

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