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Posted by Wallace Poulter on 10/21/2009

Sad to see what Liverpool have become under Rafa Benitez. Always been my brother's team and during the 70's were a sight to behold as I was forced to watch every time they were on! Liverpool played the game right, in many ways the Arsenal of their day with the exception that they won a lot more often than Wenger's boys.

I have never been impressed with Benitez, ever. Wenger is excellent, Mourinho a genius at deflecting attention to himself and the pressure away from the players and even Old Purple Nose has, I will admit, the ability to build a squad. But Benitez is a different story.

My opinion of his two Champions League finals has been something I commented on before. Saved by Gerrard in the first and tactically lost the second before a ball had even been kicked. But look at the players he has discarded, Owen, Crouch, Morientes, Bellamy and Alonso obviously jump to mind but with Torres on the sideline you don't think that they would welcome Keane up front at Anfield these days? Anelka too for that matter, but that one you can lay at the feet of Houllier.

Obscure Spaniards and Hungarians joining while the depth is shockingly thin. Benitez has tended to speculate on youngsters with some success it is true, but also there has been a lack of the club's highly rated own youngsters coming through. What you end up with is a lot of pieces, acquired at reasonable prices but not enough pure quality at the top of the squad. Essentially the players that should be Liverpool's depth are instead playing regularly in their first team. Lyon was a result not only waiting to happen, but fairly inevitable.

Benitez is of course blaming an injury crisis for the problems which is convenient but overlooks the fact that this is a squad game these days and Liverpool should expect to have players out through injury and/or suspension.

Which brings me, finally, to the City angle. While not confirmed specifically that City made the bid, it has been said both by Benitez and certain sections of the press that this summer a bid of 70 million was made for Torres and was rejected.

The next manager of Liverpool, because that's where this is heading, is going to have to rebuild the club with little significant additional financial investment from the current club owners. As the Kaka and Messi situations have shown, money is not an issue for City. So what price Gerrard and Torres?

And before Liverpudlians completely foam at the mouth... think it through. At say a combined 180 million or more for the pair, Liverpool could literally rebuild their entire team. Wouldn't be pretty I admit and Merseyside would be apoplectic for sure. But is there another solution for Liverpool? Benitez's moves in the transfer market have created a club that has two superstars, one useful midfielder and an under rated winger and that's about it. Even when the club had Alonso and Keane the squad was woefully thin, but now that squad is worse than Sunderland, Villa and ironically Keane's Spurs never mind City and the other Big Three.

Last year Liverpool had the best starting 11 in the Premier League, not the best squad, the best starting 11 and that should have been enough to win the title. It wasn't. With Torres and Gerrard on the sidelines would you name a single Liverpool player in a Premier League starting 11? No, neither would I and that is the point. The next Liverpool manager is going to have to start over and at the moment there is only one way to raise the money that will be needed.

Comments

Posted by CitehFan on 10/21/2009

Oh dear.

Best GK in the league. Best RB in the league (someone YOU wanted). Gerrard, Torres, Kuyt, Mascherano, Agger etc. What price Gerrard and Torres? Sorry, but no price I'm afraid. Maybe if you hired Paul McKenna to hypnotise them into joining a poor excuse like Manchester City. Otherwise, stick to mercenaries like Adebayor, Barry and people who dont even know who they're joining lol. Pride.

Wallace Reply Reina is good. I'd rate Given and Friedel ahead of him but Liverpool do have a quality keeper. Johnson on the other hand... please. Complete joke and there is not one shred of evidence anywhere that City wanted him other than unsubstantiated press reports. His defending is poor and I could name at least a half a dozen right backs in the Premier League that are better.

Gerrard, Torres and Mascherano are three players I referenced. Kuyt is played out of position, another Benitez trait.

Posted by Kopite25 on 10/21/2009

Agree with bits about a thin squad but Stevie & Nando no chance haha!

Utter *&^%$ but a good laugh reading it!

YNWA
JFT96

Posted by Diego Luna on 10/21/2009

hehe, very funny how arrogant you have become now that you have, but like Chelsea, you have absolutely nothing to be proud over in terms of success on the pitch.

Your headline says it all.

Benitez turned down an offer of £75 mill. from Chelsea 2 years ago, and even IF he (Benitez) had accepted the offer, Torres have stated that he is not going to any other PL-club, no matter the price.

I am not willing to go into the matter of Gerrard, maybe a few words could describe your way of thinking: Delusion, EXTREME delusion.

We in Liverpool are lucky enough to have players that knows how to be loyal.
Do you?; not so very much.

"Its sad to see what Liverpool have become under Rafa Benitez"??

One FA-cup (already there we crushed your performances the last 30 years), two CL-finals, with one resulting in victory and one Charity Shield. These are the cups Liverpool have won in the last 5 years. Maybe not so much as Id like to, but hey, at least we DO win something, unlike you...

Wallace Reply This misses my point completely. Too much vitriol, not enough reading. Liverpool, as I stated, had the best starting 11 last year and were good in previous seasons. But the moves that have been made have created a woefully weak squad. Attacking City doesn't change that.

Posted by fanner on 10/21/2009

Mourinho a genius at deflecting attention to himself and the pressure away from the players? Sorry Mourinho doesn't has such wits but he mainly a self-centered person who is a great attention seeker. He would stir and create untrue materials which could get all the attention he dying for. Yes he is a good defensive manager but a moron as a person in general.

Wallace Reply It's possible, but I disagree. When Mourinho was in charge of Chelsea it was noticeable that every silly outburst happened specifically when Chelsea or the players were under pressure whether and upcoming game or off the field press coverage. Every time Mourinho brought the story back to himself. Coincidence is always possible but...

Posted by Timothy on 10/21/2009

Well Benitez took over a side that was not even close to winning anything, and made them, into a side that won CL. He did the same with Valencia. Did you know that Valencia is considered a top team in Spain just because what Rafa did there?

He won La Liga twice and UEFA cup once with an extremely mediocre Valencia side.

He is also the only manager in world history that has won an eurpoean cup in consecutive seasons, with or without switching teams.

Benitez has an excellent track record, unlike Mark Hughes, who is a traitor to the club that made him great (as a footballer).

City-fans should be waaay more humble over for the (really) top teams supporters. This is one of these things:
1. a failed attempt to be funny.
2. just another usual case of delusion
3. arrogance

I think itis a mix of all these things. But thenI ask myself; what gave City-supporters the right to become arrogant? If I am not mistaken (which I rarely are) City have not won ANYTHING the last 30 years.


Wallace Reply Interesting, this becomes a theme in these replies. Instead of addressing the issue at hand, the thin squad and lack of overall quality that Liverpool has the response is to attack City for not winning anything in the past 30 years. Of all the replies I have received not one has claimed that Liverpool have depth of any kind.

Posted by mario on 10/21/2009

remove both benites and lucas

Posted by Kevin O'Brien on 10/21/2009

'With Torres and Gerrard on the sidelines would you name a single Liverpool player in a Premier League starting 11? No, neither would I and that is the point.'

Stick to the video games and refereeing Sunday league, eh?

Wallace Replay Now I like this one because Kevin bothered to look at my profile before taking a shot.

But really, which Liverpool player could you possibly suggest make a Premier League top 11? Given or Friedel in goal, Sagna at right Back, Terry and Vidic in the centre back position, Evra at left back. Arshavin on the left of midfield, Ireland on the right, Fabregas and Lampard in the middle of midfield and Rooney and Drogba up front. Sure you can quibble with most of those but there's not one Liverpool player after Torres and Gerrard who gets close other than Reina.

Posted by Sean on 10/21/2009

Hilariously funny. He gets to 2 champions league finals in 3 years and you say it was donw to luck. He has spent 80M net in 6 years and City have spent 200M net in 18 month so dont even bother with comparisons son. Also,if you think that Reina, Mascharano, Carragher, Agger and Benayoun would not get in your side then you are even more deluded than I thought.

Owen wanted to go as did Crouch. Benitex wanted to keep both. Morientes didnt suit it at Liverpool and Bellamy was let go as we needed the cash for Torres (Hardly a bad move eh?). Alonso also WANTED to go. You know like Lescott did.....

Ill informed article is the best praise I can give you. Lets see where City end up at the end of the season eh?

Wallace Replay I couldn't see any of the players you list getting into the current City first team, and I'm a fan of Benayoun in particular. I very much wanted City to go after him rather than Liverpool and consider him an under appreciated player.

Crouch left because of the silly rotation policy, Morientes wasn't given enough time to settle and Alonso left because of the falling out he had with Benitez. Fair enough on Bellamy except that illustrates the point. Liverpool don't have the funds available so how do you rebuild this thin squad?

Posted by stan on 10/21/2009

agreed sell them two for 180 plus masch for 25..205 mill to spend..sell barbel, kuyt, et all and raise another 30-40 mill so a budget of 250 bring Jose whos getting the sack from inter soon as CL campaign has flopped

Raina
Johnson Agger Cara Bale
Cattermole Palacious
Silva Pajanic Navas
Dzeko

Lucas
Benayoon
Skirtl
Ven der vart
Chamak
hazzard
defour

Posted by Hugo on 10/21/2009

Gerrard will never leave Liverpool. Sure he nearly went to Chelsea a few years back but that was before Liverpool were regularly pushing for Champions League titles and he was a younger man. And even if he did, you would only need to look at his ok-but-not-great England career to see he's not the same player when he's not wearing a Liverpool shirt.

And when Torres first came to England he was only interested in Liverpool. That's because they are big club, with a big name and a big history. Not every player is a mercenary, and you have to remember City are still just a small club with a big wallet. I'm not saying they will never be a big club, but this is just another example of City geting ahead of themselves.

And I'm neither a City fan nor a Liverpool fan.

Wallace reply Perfectly reasonable argument. City were a big club but indeed that was more than a few years ago. In current terms, a small club in terms of trophies although the support has always harkened to the glory days.

Posted by Snah on 10/21/2009

If City is willing to pay at least 100 Million pounds for each then a deal may be done. This also will probably be needed as an upfront payment which would not be an issue for the City Owner but Gerrard & Torres are loyal players and this will not happen. So keep dreaming.

Posted by RedNProud on 10/21/2009

Owen left as Raffa arrived, Crouch refused to sign an extention, Morientes was usless, Alonso had two poor seasons when Raffa wanted to sell him (bear in mind nobody wanted to buy him at that time), Kean didn't take the chances he was given and Bellamy had problems in the dressing room. Torres has already stated he won't go to the successful half of Manchester and Gerrard turned a money move to Chelski down, so why would they go to City. And if I had to choose between Raffa and Mark Hughes - no contest, Raffa wins hands down.

If you look at the stats you have a game in hand and won one game more than Liverpool but Liverpool have the better goal difference so I wouldn't get too complacent yet. Yes City have the money but as of yet have achieved nothing, so until you have concentrate on your own team and manager.

Wallace Reply The issue is Liverpool's lack of depth and a selection/recruitment policy that has driven away good players. I disagree on Morientes for what it's worth. I don't feel he was ever given the time to grow into the player that he could be at Anfield. Some foreign players just take a while. Torres and his brilliance is very much the exception.

Posted by Neil Blinston on 10/22/2009

Well Gerrard wanted Gareth Barry as his midfield partner so maybe next season that could become reality albeit under different circumstances. Good article and something not out of the realms of possibility, as you said money is not a problem for City ( still can't believe I can say that ), however, can the Liverpool owners afford the compensation should they sack Benitez ?

Posted by Evan Georgiou on 10/22/2009

Brilliant article,but the problem is that the two players would rather not play for our beloved City.....I also believe that Gerrard is injurred and tired and we could do a lot better with Iniesta....

Posted by DarkDefender on 10/22/2009

Lets face the facts. Benitez has spend over £200m while in Liverpool buyn over 50 players, thats something like 10/season. Manchester United have spend about the same bringin in about 30 players, catch my drift?

He is just poor bringin in players, he goes for quantity instead of quality and we all know where that leads. Also trusting blingly in Carragher is just hilariuos he is avarage+ at best, but hey he is a icon so...

I think you have good point. Benitez has come to a crossroad, something has to give simple as that. Dalglish could be brought back as an emergency manager, but it wont happen cause Liverpool dont have the money to sack Benitez so if worst case scenario happens Liverpool will without any sort of continental football next year which puts enormous preasure to over haul the squad next summer...

Posted by durban blue moon on 10/22/2009

"If you look at the stats you have a game in hand and won one game more than Liverpool but Liverpool have the better goal difference so I wouldn't get too complacent yet."--- wait until after Christmas and look at the stats then,with Liverpool's wafer thin squad the expression 'a country mile' springs to mind

Posted by colin on 10/22/2009

Im a city fan and although I do belive that it's still a while off before we can start signing the likes of Steve G and torres I do tend to agree with this artical in some points gerrared and torres are to me in the top five players in the world in there postions. Which makes them valubale assets I don't think this artical is saying we are going to buy these 2 coz we ain't what it's trying to say is because of ur owners acting like a pair of spoilt kids it's possibley the only way LFC could raise the funds to build a squad that can win the tittle last season u had the best 11 but nothing to back it up which is why u didn't win it. Don't agree about Bentiz being the problem think it's the owners (we know plenty about bad owners) but I'll put money on rafa being made the scape goat by the owners

Posted by Martin Nazimek on 10/22/2009

Wallace, you seem to be attracting all sorts of attention these days. have said it for a while now, Benitez isnt a good manager. Cant argue the point of his success earlier, but how much money has he spent on ok talent? how much money do you spend on RB's over a 2 season period? I agree that City are not where Liverpool was, but I like our chances a lot better going forward than Liverpool's. When I look at our team and depth, its better that pool's. Not sayin anything bad about pool, hope you guys beat the scum and I still cheer for you, but goin forward, I would rather be in City's shoes. CTID

Posted by MAN CITY FOREVER on 10/22/2009

Liverpool arnt the same team as last year and they will be replaced in te champions leauge spot by man city. Gerrard and torres deserve champions league football they deserve to join a big team wheather its man city or someone else

Posted by Simon12 on 10/22/2009

Unbeleiveable. The question is what price for them? Not they are on there way. Bin dippers again feeling sorry for themselves...I can see it now flags and scarfs on every traffic island on Queens Drive. This is not like a liverpool team of old where as a City fan I dreaded playing them. 2 injuries you`re knackered and I think thats the point. Along with mediocre buys and too much tinkering you are here TODAY. You have a great history however history is also yet to be made and be honest would you bet against City making some. Thats not arrogance as we have lived as City fans all our lives. It`s just our turn.

Posted by mike on 10/22/2009

you liverpool fans make me laugh your a joke you have,nt spent millions as for the kop you only sing when yor winning or is it whingeing

Posted by Francisco Silva on 10/22/2009

I get your point, Liverpool squad is not deep enought. It's so clear that there is no way denying it.
I think, however that Torres will not go, I think he'll stick at Liverpool until he can go back to Spain. If Rafa gets the sack and Pellegrini doesn't deliver the Champions League, Rafa will be the next Madrid boss and he'll take Torres with him.
Gerrard's a possibility, but I think his best momment is gone and he's showing it this season. City's best change is that Gerrard keeps underperforming this season and then Liverpool will cash him in next year.
Nobody has mentioned that, given that the WC is starting in June, a lot of the stars will have a vey careful approach to their club games. this includes Torres, Gerrard and Rooney who are always having minor injuries. Liverpoll will strugle a lot next year becasue their 2 major stars will have an eye on the big prize. If they are fit, they will make it to SA regardless of the form they are come May.

Posted by Francisco Silva on 10/22/2009

So what price?
It depends on the market. If City is not buying and Real is dooing OK with Ronaldo, Benzema and Kaka, then Torees could be worht 50 millions. If you add City or Real to the equation then he will be probably 80 million, maybe 90. Gerrard however is another thing becasue the is past his best and not always fit, plus he is not so valuable in Spain. He could be worth 40 miilion if City is buying. If Liverpool is out of the Champions League he will go cheap.

Posted by Jon on 10/22/2009

Good column Wallace, you pointed out a lot of the concerns Liverpool supports (should) have. Strangely enough, the longer Benitez is Liverpool boss, the better chance we have at making the top four!

As for the petty Liverpool supporters attacking City, rather than the article, get a clue, will ya? Probably not, because you're all still behind Benitez for some reason. You haven't won a trophy in three years, and the two major trophies you won under benitez were on penalties, after Stevie G saved the rest of the team on multiple occasions in each competition.

Anyways, C'mon City! Three points against Fulham this weekend!

Posted by monday on 10/23/2009

i think gerrad torres macharano should just the team for a better team since they were unable to rise the trophy last reason it will be very difficult for liverpool to rise it again.i don;t really no why rafa banitez should sell alonso that makes me hate him because he as tune my favuority team to a weak side.i no we will never work alone.

Posted by Andrew Cowley on 10/23/2009

Torres will not stay should either Benitez go or Liverpool miss out on champions league.it looks like benitez is out but torres will go to spain most likely unless city offer silly money.any liverpool fan who thinks this wont happen because of 'loyalty' is living in the boot room days still which is part of their problem anyway.as for gerrard well hes not been as good this year but hard to see him going but anything is possible i suppose if poor form continues then maybe cash in and start again but unlikely.city are going well and will finish in top four but probably just a jaap stam and a roy keane away from the league title.other then that the squad is good enough.mourinho would do it just get shot of hughes.on mourinho liverpool should get him he would do well there.im a newcastle fan so dont have beef either way.

Posted by lex on 10/23/2009

Would Torres and Gerrard really fetch 180 million? I can see Torres going for a Ronaldo-like sum, but Gerrard is approaching 30, and will start to decline in the coming years.

I think 120 million for both would be a reasonable price.

Posted by Stan on 10/24/2009

Lots of posturing by Liverpool fans....the proof will be in the table, one way or the other. I'm shocked that a side fancying itself as Champions League contenders has allowed its squad to get so thin. The drop-off from the starters is startling, and something I'd expect from lower-tier teams.

You wrote a provocative post, and ignited spirited responses. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, given where City is right now, it seems a fair question - even if neither player comes to Manchester.

Posted by Dan on 10/24/2009

Haha, Liverpool fans hey.

Enjoy your Europa League while we're singing Blue Moon at the San Siro.

Posted by Jonathan Maturino on 11/09/2009

I think Manchester City should at least try to buy either Gerrard or Torres because they are both good players and i they deserve to play for a team that will end up in the top 4 not like Liverpool. And other players they should try to buy Cristiano Ronaldo because he's like the best soccer player in the world or at least try to get his cousin because he's really good.

Goalkeeper they should get is Memo Ochoa.
Defenders they should get are Rafa Marquez and Sergio Ramos.
Midfielders are the ones I just said.
Forwards they should get are Benzema, Kaka, Jozy Altidore, or Ronaldinho.

Posted by Liver4eva on 12/29/2009

hah...Im very suprisereading through these conversation...
i am liverpool big fan since 1991 and i know the lack of Liverpool squad this season.. The problem is The Reds sold Alonso and Arbeloa..y?No imporvement at all in the squad..with macherano & Lucas keep doing mistake and gaining card game by game, it very obvious this squad s so weak at the center..this unbalance squad resulted 7 crashed both home and away match. this is horrible for liverpool fans..Benitez better than houllier im afraid and this season maybe benitez got bad luck. 2 main thing that liverpool need, Good midfielder (Aquilani very good) and Striker...They should by Benzema.. No doubt about that..Keep Torres & gerard and buy Benzema..and another season should buy 1 more midfielder...2011 i hope we can see Liverpool win the premier league..If we have additional good striker & midfielder, it is no doubt taht liverpool will claim the league title.

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About
Wallace Poulter Wallace Poulter is an award winning video game producer, designer, industry consultant and writer. He has been a football fanatic since the day he moved in next door to Brian Clough. "Cloughie" being the acknowledged genius that he was promptly moved out and went to manage Derby. A serviceable senior school left-back in his youth, Poulter played one season of Sunday league football as a striker proving conclusively that he was a serviceable senior school left-back! Today Poulter remains involved with football as a licensed referee and most recently as a consultant on a Football MMO.
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