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I'll leave it to others to analyze and talk about the Joleon Lescott signing. Instead I've had this crazy thought running through my head for a week now. Really crazy. I've written it down, kicked the tires as it were and gone back and forth and here it is. With the signing of Lescott, do City now have the best squad in the Premier League?
I know! Believe me I know. It sounds preposterous to even contemplate. And just so we are completely clear, I'm not saying City are the best team, not by a long shot. There's a reason I have predicted them to finish sixth this year. Nor do City have the best individual players. The Big Four, Tottenham, Everton and Aston Villa have that covered.
I've talked about before how City's Goalkeeping, Midfield and Striking options from a depth standpoint are outstanding. Now the club adds Lescott and you'll note that once again with a signing Mark Hughes has indicated that the player can play multiple positions.
If we presume that Garrido goes before the deadline and Dunne stays the club has four players that can play LB (Bridge, Sylvinho, Lescott and Barry), three that can play RB (Richards, Zabaleta and Onuoha) and six that can play CB (Lescott, Toure, Kompany, Onuoha, Dunne and Richards). Ten players that can be mixed as needed based on form, injuries, suspensions and African Nations Cup call ups. It's a solid squad.
Taken as a group only Manchester United's might be considered better due to the high quality of starters Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra and the promise of Rafael and Fabio, but neither Gary Neville or Wes Brown would crack the City squad.
Where United win in this regard is that their squad has very specific roles. There is a well defined first eleven, good quality back ups that fit the system, aging superstar players that can inspire and a good crop of youngsters that get to learn and step up as needed. City don't have that mix yet and the sameness of quality throughout the squad will be, I suspect, an occasional detriment as players chaff over playing time.
Jack over at The Lonesome Death of Roy Carroll has commented that the Hughes transfer policy seems to have been specifically geared this year to players that have won trophies, placed high in the Premier League or both. It is a squad designed, it seems to me, with one specific goal in mind. Achieve the target of a top six position this year and challenge for Champions League places next year.
To move to that next level the squad is going to need a little bit more quality. Realistically if you were to list the top ten players in the Premier League I don't believe a City player would be one of those picked. Off hand I'd say Torres, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Fabregas, Arshavin, Modric, Terry, Drogba, and Vidic. City players such as Ireland, Barry and Given would certainly be in contention for the top twenty, but you need that quality at the highest level. This makes the pursuit of John Terry even more logical when you think about it.
City now have a squad that can challenge. Nothing more, nothing less. There will be bumps in the road as the squad comes together, however fundamentally Hughes has in the space of a year rebuilt the team to his liking.
And so I'll return to my original question with a conclusion. City have the deepest squad in the Premier League. The overall construction of Uniteds is probably still better and their high end quality certainly is, but it is starting to get very interesting...
Comments
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Posted by Travis on 08/26/2009
Wallace, I completely agree that City now has the deepest squad in the Premiership. If you take a possible lineup of our "second team" players, it might look like: Taylor, Zabaleta, Dunne (assuming Lescott takes over), Onuoha/Kompany, Sylvinho, Weiss, De Jong, Johnson, Petrov, Santa Cruz, Bellamy. Assuming all are healthy, that's a lineup I would take against at least half of the current Premier League teams, your Blackburns, Hulls, Wigans, Boltons, etc. To be able to now field a second team capable, at least to me, of holding down a mid-table position, when just last season that was the best our first team could do... well, I can hardly believe it.
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Posted by David Foy on 08/26/2009
Following up on what Travis said, I personally think that not only could our second team beat half of the premier league on any given day but on top of that i find it amazing to think that our current second team probably is better than our first team of only 2 years ago.
On the Lescott deal, i like the player, i like the versatility he gives us but to be honest i think the money we gave up was craziness (though as a fan I'm not sure I should really care) and I worry about Lescott eating into Onuoha's first team opportunities. Like Wallace (i'm pretty sure in one of your articles you said this) I believe that City had all the CB it needed with Onuoha stepping up into a first team place.
Going to be a very exciting season all around. When ManU and Everton lose to Burnely you know something strange is going on.
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Posted by lex on 08/27/2009
"Nor do City have the best individual players. The Big Four, Tottenham, Everton and Aston Villa have that covered."
Wallace, I'm curious as to who you feel the best individual players are from Tottenham, Everton and Aston Villa, and why you feel they trump City's.
You're right that City don't have a Fabregas, Gerrard, Lampard, or Rooney. And I definitely agree with the premise of your article: City's squad is formidable.
Also, do you think top 6 is still the target? The website had an article about how transfer plans have been accelerated. Perhaps a new target is in place?
Wallace Reply I consider Tim Cahill at Everton, Luka Modric at Spurs and Ashley Young at Aston Villa to be better than any current City player. Each of those teams has at least one player that is better than City. The Big Four of course have multiple players that fit into that category. It's the next step that Hughes will address in his evolution of the team I'm sure.
I still consider sixth to be the most realistic target for the team. It is rare, and ironically we saw it with Sven, for a team to come together quickly especially with so many new additions. Part of the Sven exception was that the new additions were so much better and it created an "obvious" first team. This is less so with with the current squad even if the quality and depth are much more formidable.
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Posted by Jason on 08/27/2009
It all depends on how Hughes chooses to rotate the back 2. If presumably Lescott and Toure start you would have to think Hughes would would use Onuoha off the bench as first defensive replacement instead of Dunne, (Who if can't recapture his from from a couple seasons back should seriously be on the out, something I would personally love to see).
And with the depth of the squad it is great at the moment but I still feel we have too many attacking and too many defensive style players and not enough in between. In that I mean the midfield of SWP (RW), Robinho (LW) and Ireland (CAM) are all players that like to get forward and in many cases ignore any defensive duties. And then our back four who all like to get forward as well. I'd just like to see another Gareth Barry style player in the starting 11. I guess the big question would be who misses out, maybe its just a case of me being greedy and wanting 12 players on the field.
COME ON CITY!
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Posted by AlexC83 on 08/27/2009
Wallace, so you've forgotten that "We've got Robinho" then??? He's not actually as bad as people who don't actually watch city every week make out. Those three you've mentioned might have been more effective away from home last season for their clubs but they're not better players...
Plus, Shay Given's better than any of them anyway!
In terms of our targets I think they've changed slightly:
Either
A) We finish in the top four
Or
B) If we finish outside of the top four then we'd better have gone a long, long way in one or the other (or both) cup competitions.
i.e. Limping out of the cups early doors and finishing 6th won't be acceptable unless there are some legitimate reasons for the cup exits, for instance if the cup exits we're by Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal/United...
Basically, we'd better do very well in the league if we get knocked out by palace tonight!
Wallace Reply lol no I've not forgotten Robinho. On his day he's quite sensational. More consistency is required.
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Posted by jack on 08/27/2009
Doesnt Citeh have a player by the name of Robinho? Surely he is a better player than Cahill, Modric (on most days), and Young? He is the type of player that can change a game by himself and, though I'll be the first to admit he hasn't been in form for sometime now, on his best days he would be a Premier League top ten player. Ireland isnt too shabby himself. What is your opinion Wallace?
Wallace Reply Cahill can inspire a club and drive it on almost by shear will. Without him Everton would be poor. Robinho has more pure talent than those three players, but he disappears to much.
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Posted by Martin Nazimek on 08/27/2009
Wallace. I agree with everything you say, but have one question. Who would cover for our attacking mid if ireland go down. To me, its not who have the best starting 11, but who has the deepest squad since there will be injuries and such. So the attacking mid is my concern. Which is why the loss of elano makes no sense. What do you think? CTID
Wallace Reply Robinho would be my choice and of all people I think Adebayor would work well in the role.
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Posted by oliver on 08/27/2009
What mark hughes seems to be doing is building a very efficient and hungry team. They might not be in the league of modric and other flair players,but this team is not going to lose to any team without a fight!
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Posted by AlexC83 on 08/27/2009
I think Jason's inadvertantly raised a massive point which I've thought from the opening two games - why do we seem to have moved more towards a 4-4-2 formation??? I hope that's not gonna be played in all the games because to my mind it suits Barry and SWP but not Robinho and Ireland.
I'd love to see us go back to 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 of last season. We mainly lacked the striker to fit that formation and we've well and truly got that with Adebayor.
I hope the change to more of a 4-4-2 is down more to overconfidence as we're not playing oe of the top teams than a new formation we're gonna play every game. I'm probably worrying about nothing but I loved the flexibility and license to roam it afforded Stevie Ireland last season!
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Posted by Jo on 08/27/2009
Other than the vulnerability of injuries and inconsistency, to make it top 4, two areas still lacking. One is a playmaker in the midfield that is like a Steven Gerrard in Liverpool, or Fabregas in Arsenal, or Modric in Spurs (however could not agree Robinho fit into the shoe due to his inconsistency). Another is a make-shift striker to balance out the workload of Adebayor. Notice when he was inconsistent last season, with Eduardo injured and no one stepping up, Arsenal failed miserably to finish 4th in the league. An out-out-field consistent striker with another playmaker would complete the squad for top 4 position.
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Posted by Brandon on 08/27/2009
I figured with the additions of the strikers to the Man city squad they would play a more barcelona type of football! Of course Man city is a poor man's barcelona but it would be exciting to watch!
I also think the objective has changed! They're looking to break into the top 4 or at least try very hard but I question Mark Hughes ability! I've seen other managers do more with less! I think the players are coaching that team!
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Posted by Bloo Blood on 08/28/2009
Jo,
mate have you lost it a bit?
that playmaker you speak of is named Steven Ireland, or Superman.
That make shift striker is TEVEZ.
Screw ya head on!
Good stuff Wally, although I believe Ireland and Robinho now with Tevs and Ade are as good if not more sensational than modric and young.
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Posted by Don-X on 08/28/2009
The Man City I see has a versatile set of options
( 4-4-2 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 ) for various teams they meet throughout the competitions. they have depth and they can cause damage to any big teams out there ... I expect them to reach the top 4 this season ! and they'll get stronger as a team as the season advances ... Robinho will surprise us all at a certain point ! and the season will end with Man City being the team they have scored less against !!!
Most of the team's future strategies against top teams will rest on Hughes' shoulders ... How will he be able to keep the team motivated with passion and vision !!??? .. the team we all see can do it ! they can deliver ... on a consistent basis ....
we need more goals !
Prediction :( 4 - 0 against Portsmouth with Robinho scoring 2 goals )
Go Man City .. GO !
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Posted by Danial on 08/28/2009
Rafael van der Vaart to back up Stephen "Superman" Ireland anyone? He seems to be in the fringes of Real Madrid & would be an excellent acquisition now, if not during the January transfer window.
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Posted by Nigel (Canada) on 08/28/2009
I agree with everything you said about City .They have a good collection of star players but you still need chemistry to make it work .Now Mark Hughes has the lads he hand picked we will now see what kind of manager he is .But I think Ireland is over rated and he missed a few easy markers against Wanderers the other day .They need a Deco or Ribery who are play makers.But can you tell me other than Petr Chech and aging Edwin VanDerSar who the heck is a better tender that Shay Given .I am a Arsenal fan ,but always admired this kid.He has been on bad domestic and National Teams .
Wallace Reply I think Given at this point is better than those two. Friedel on his best day is probably better than Given on his best, but match after match Given is probably the best keeper in the Premier League.
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Posted by KK on 08/28/2009
Agree to Jo, I would say the Sporting duo João Moutinho & Miguel Veloso would fill in the roles described by Jo as well as Jason.
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Posted by chris on 08/28/2009
Agree with you, Wallace, about the squad - one of the top in the league - bench is full of quality - Petrov, Onuoha, Bellamy, RSC, Zabaleta, Kompany, Sylvinho, De Jong would all start for 12-14 of the Premiere League... I am a little concerned about formation, as a couple of posters have indicated - with all of the attacking talent on the pitch, we seem to being a little bit overrun in Mid-field... haven't seen Hughes make tactical change (i.e., bring in De Jong for Robinho or SWP) in any of the matches - understandable against Wolves, Palace and the like, but against Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Tottenham, I have to think we will need more bodies in midfield to even get any play whatsoever... I hate to say it but I am coming around on your concerns about the sale of Elano, in this regard - extra midfield quality, different creative option in the middle.
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Posted by Stan on 08/28/2009
ManCity certainly looks deeper than Liverpool now, but healthy debates could last a while comparing City's squad with ManU, Chelsea and Arsenal.
City still looks like a team getting acquainted, and it's rubbish to expect top-drawer performances right out of the chute. This is like a new ship with a new crew that is fresh out of port and the sailors are learning on the move what the beast can do.
That's why it's been significant to pick up all 6 points in the first two matches, and it's a scheduling break to get a struggling Portsmouth next - more time to sharpen play as Arsenal and ManU loom.
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Posted by Ryan on 08/29/2009
I like your article, and agree that City have a good, deep squad. But a deep bench is only going to get them so far. Up front, I have no questions about them, Robinho & Tevez are fantastic. But defensively they are suspect, not due to talent, but due to chemistry and familiarity. They've built from the front to back, and everyone knows a great side is built back to front. Just because they've bought some great players doesn't clinch anything. It takes time to build great chemistry at the back. So we'll see... or won't see...
My only problem is with your "off hand" top ten players in the Premiership. No way Modric is better than Essien. Better scorer? Sure. But I'm not sure that anyone is better than Essien in terms of being complete.
Wallace Reply I thought Essien slipped a little last year but he's one of the best 15 players.
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Posted by Cameron on 08/29/2009
Interesting stuff. As a spurs fan I'm glad you included Modric in your quick top ten. I do agree that city need a top ten player to really be a title challenger, however it's not unthinkable that such a player could emerge from within - Ireland, Adebayor, Tevez, Robinho, and Richards are all under 25 and a breakout season from one of these players doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Anyway, even if none of those players does breakout it will be a lot easier to attract a top ten player next year now that the roster is near complete and the good results are coming in.
Wallace Reply Modric took a little time to settle (which is the norm for foreign players) but I think he's a great talent.
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Posted by chris c on 08/30/2009
I agree with the article that man city doesnt have the youth in their team. They have the money,so they should go out and buy the top prospects in the world and give them two or three years and let them develop. They have the money to buy whoever they want but why not buy a prospect for 4-5 millon instead of buying them when they're worth 20-30 million.
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Posted by Stuart on 08/31/2009
Hi Wallace. I'm an Evertonian but love City for obvious reasons. Do City have the best squad in the prem? I believe they do. Hughes has made some fabulous signings and the key is to have multiple talent in all positions and flexibility to boot. City now have this. I predict a top FOUR finish for your boys. Hughes is the right coach for this sort of thing and I predict a strong season. I especially predict a good couple of cup runs as I know this important to Sparky. Good luck to the Citizens and one question:- where do EFC find a billionaire who wants to own a team??
Wallace Reply I keep expecting that to happen. When you look at tradition, and potential Everton, Newcastle and Leeds are the 3 clubs that would seem to make the most sense from an investment standpoint.
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Posted by Stuart on 08/31/2009
Hey Wallace, It's Stuart again. I just posted but after I did, I thought about something:- Back in 1980 I had the good fortune of meeting the great Joe Mercer. I hope all City fans get a kick out of this:- I worked in St. Johns Precinct for MANWEB and I was taking a short cut through Lime Steet Station one morning and Mr. Mercer had just gotten of a train. I saw him and went over. I introduced myself and told him what an honour it was to meet the legend and could I have his autograph. As cool as you like, he says, that depends, are you red or blue. I say blue - he says "good man, good man." He signed my autograph and we chatted for a minute or two. I got to shake his hand. What an honour that was for me. He was wearing a beige rain coat. I told him that I thought that was just for the media. He said "No, I wear this old thing all the time." LOL!!!! Great man, great team:- Bell, Summerbeee, etc, etc,etc. Hey, Anyone remember that war movie with Michael Caine about football in a POW Camp?
Wallace Reply That's a great story about Mercer. I love those little anecdotes about people and wish biographies had more of them.
The Michael Caine movie is Escape to Victory which also had former City players Mike Summerbee and Kaz Denya in the cast. And some fellow called Pele.
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Posted by Don-X on 08/31/2009
So much for my prediction with Portsmouth ! Robinho did not even play ! and we have to admit ... the game was not an easy win for the Man City squad. The boys still have a clean sheet which is a very good thing + a game in hand ! - When was the last time Man City had a similar EPL start ??? ... most likely - never ! - In a few weeks time, the major test will come for Man city, in the likes of the gunners and Man U.
Wallace, in your opinion ... if Man City have not scored many goals so far, what would be the cause or reason of that factual observation !!?? could it be a lack of creativity upfront ... or the defenses they've gone up against are pretty solid ?? or maybe a bit of both ??? or else ...
Wallace Reply Given Robinho's away form last year I'm not surprised that he didn't start. City are playing a different style of football this year. Previously they would overcome opponents with multiple players crashing the box at the end of a move.
With the new players joining I'm pleasantly pleased that the club has yet to concede and have managed the traditionally difficult away trips to Portsmouth and Blackburn. In previous years Wolves at home would have been a banana skin for the club.
The club had a similar start under Sven.
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Posted by Stuart on 08/31/2009
Modric, Young and Cahill have a better ability than Robinho? Superb comment. Absolute chaos, madness. Excellent. Well done!
Wallace Reply lol... Robinho has yet to show that he is a complete Premier League footballer. His performances away from Eastlands have been poor and it is that more than anything that leads me to list him outside the top ten. On his day, Arsenal at home last year for example, Robinho is a top five talent. And that's the rub... "On his day"
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Posted by Rodney on 08/31/2009
Hi Wallace, I have read this piece and although I agree with some of the things you have written I still can't come to terms with the fact(after reading the comments) that you think Tim Cahill, Modric and Young are actually better than "any City player." Not one of these players can start on the Seleceao! So nuff said on that and the Robinho issue. What I think you failed to highlight is the fact that on these teams the coach (and his belief in the player) is of utmost importance.Take Modric for eg. Everyone had written him off till Harry came and insisted he will be the player the team is built around. Now look at the player! Robinho is City's best player beyond a doubt (even with the new signings) A team needs to have that magical player in the mix to unlock defences (like how Ronaldo was for Untd or Messi is to Barca) How he is used (and not Ireland for sentimental reasons) will be the determining factor for City. Despite the results Hughes is not using him to optimise his qualities.
Wallace Reply Robinho is a world class talent on his day. When he shows the consistency of a Ronaldo or a Messi then I'll be happy.
I've always liked Modric. Thought he was a steal when Spurs signed him. Just took him the time to get settled that it usually takes foreign imports.
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Posted by steve on 08/31/2009
Good article re. city squad.
City's target at the start of the window was stated as top six, but now that the window is coming towards the end, Mark Hughes will have noticed that Liverpool, United and Arsenal have gone backwards during the window and perhaps should be re-assessing City's target.
Also its interesting that the next game against Arsenal is being highlighted as a good indicator for City's progress, considering City won 3-0 last season with a poorer team compared to this season.
Lastly, keep your eye on Vladimer Weiss a tricky young winger who will be pushing SWP for a place later in the season.
Whats your thoughts? Wallace
Wallace ReplyI think Weiss should have been sent out this year on loan to play every day rather than sitting on the bench looking for the occasional game.
Arsenal last year was along with Sunderland the best games the team played (I remember the Portsmouth game). The skill it took for Robinho to score his goal is incredible.
I actually think City will lose to Arsenal this next week even though obviously long term this is a much better City team.
Hope I'm proved wrong of course.
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Posted by Stan on 09/02/2009
Wallace Reply Robinho is a world class talent on his day. When he shows the consistency of a Ronaldo or a Messi then I'll be happy.
What? We are talking Modric, Young and Cahill.
Modric is powder puff, Young, erratic and Cahill, steady. None of them can touch Robinho, Tevez, or Barry. As for Ireland he will outstrip Modric, Young and Cahill on his own this season.
Wallace Reply I was referencing Ronaldo and Messi because they are World Class talent with consistency. Sad to say that Modric, Young and Cahill are better than Robinho at the moment. Tevez is a phenomenal worker but he has a tendency to drift out of a few games. Barry and Ireland I agree. With a solid season for both they will certainly be better than Young. Modic can be very special. Cahill already is. Most under rated player in the Premier League.
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About
Wallace Poulter is an award winning video game producer, designer, industry consultant and writer. He has been a football fanatic since the day he moved in next door to Brian Clough. "Cloughie" being the acknowledged genius that he was promptly moved out and went to manage Derby. A serviceable senior school left-back in his youth, Poulter played one season of Sunday league football as a striker proving conclusively that he was a serviceable senior school left-back! Today Poulter remains involved with football as a licensed referee and most recently as a consultant on a Football MMO.
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